Wednesday, 6 May 2015

The Center piece that began my troubles...........(blog 100)



This is perhaps the longest Blog that I will write and yet it is the centerpiece of my ongoing trauma as it completely destroyed my life, and the lives of my friends and family. A piece like this must be written to show people the lack of regard the system has for a man's life. To you this may be an arduous read, but it covers just a half day of trial -- a trial that was scheduled for 5 days but ended shortly after lunch on the first day when they tried to figure out how to exclude the jury and grant me an Acquittal.


I will highlight, in my own words, in response to the transcripts, just how ludicrous this became. The Crown Judge, R.C.M.P, should have known that no crime was committed. You will see the judge's comments, which he made just after giving me an Acquittal, which show his malicious intent. You will read for yourself the accuser admitting several times to committing perjury, and yet whereas the judge has the duty to serve law, he ignores courtroom confessions under oath and NO ONE is charged or even admonished. I was accused of a crime and subsequently exonerated of that accusation. In the end, while given an Acquittal, the same judge alluded that I had committed an offense, while those who admit under oath to committing crimes under the Canadian Law, he openly ignores.


Their crimes are not without a victim and that victim is me. I will share my feelings as events in the courtroom unfolded. I will retell and describe to you that which you don't hear and see in the words that are contained in the transcripts. (Thank you to the reader who corrected my grammar).

12 Opening by the Court
 13 14 THE COURT: I will then address the jury briefly.
 15
 16 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this case. On Thursday of last week you were chosen
 17 by the Crown and defence counsel to decide this case. I am now going to take some time 
18 to describe your duties as jurors and the procedure that we will follow during this trial. I 
19 appreciate you may have heard some of these remarks from the justice who presided over 
20 jury selection, but it’s important for me to emphasize certain things now that you are
 21 sitting in these chairs in this courtroom during this week of trial. I will also explain to
 22 you some of the rules of law that apply in this case. 
23
 24 If there is one central or fundamental message that I can leave you with, it’s that the oath
 25 that you have each taken today requires you to listen closely to the evidence and to decide
 26 this case solely on the evidence that you hear in this trial and on the instructions with 
27 respect to the law that I will give you in due course. 
28
 29 As the jury, you are the sole judges of the facts. You must decide this case only on the
 30 evidence presented to you in the courtroom. Please keep an open mind as the evidence is 
31 being presented. Don’t be influenced by any sympathy that you may have or prejudice 
32 that you may have for or against anyone.
It would appear that the judge does not take his own advice to heart as you will see coming up.
33
 34 When we talk about evidence, we’re speaking about the testimony of witnesses and things
 35 that may be entered as exhibits. Evidence includes what each witness says in response to
 36 questions that are asked of him or her. Questions themselves are not evidence unless the 
37 witness agrees that something he or she is being asked as a question is correct. Only the
 38 answers then are the evidence.
Yet down the road they will regard and disregard that of the answers of my accuser and reference it to as "evidence".
 39
 40 The Crown and defence in this case may agree to certain facts. Those are called 
41 admissions. When an admission is made, no further evidence is required to establish it as 
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 1 a fact.
 2
 3 As the sole judges of the facts, you will have the responsibility to decide on the 
4 credibility of witnesses and the weight you will give to the evidence of each witness. It
 5 will be your job to decide if you believe everything a witness says or part of what a
 6 witness says or none of what a witness says. It’s because of the importance of your role
 7 as judges of the facts that I must reiterate that you listen to the evidence carefully, only to
 8 the evidence which is presented, and do all of that with great care and diligence.
 9
Sadly these prove to be mere words as that power gets taken out of their hands and redirected solely to his and once again I find he doesn't follow the same lead He set out for them.

10 There are some things that you need to know are not evidence. You mustn’t rely on such
 11 things as you consider and decide this case. If I instruct you, for example, that something 
12 that has come out in court should be disregarded as evidence, that will be because as a
 13 question of law certain evidence should not be considered by you. It will then be your
 14 duty to follow the instruction that I give you with respect to what the state of the law is 
15 as it pertains to certain evidence. 
16 
17 The charges that you have heard read out as this case has begun this morning are not 
18 evidence. What the lawyers and I say when we speak to you during the trial is not 
19 evidence. What you may hear outside this courtroom about this case or about any of the
 20 persons involved in it, that’s not evidence. What you may hear on the radio or see on
 21 television or see in the newspaper or the internet or what you may have heard from other
 22 persons about this case, if any of that, none of that is evidence. You must ignore any of
 23 these sorts of things completely. There is a publication ban in effect in this trial and so
 24 there is no good reason why there should have been any media coverage of this case, and
 25 I’m not suggesting to you that there has been any, but if for any reason there is, you must
 26 avoid it. You mustn’t do your own research. You must consider only the evidence 
27 presented to you in the courtroom. 
28
 29 While you’re the sole judges of the facts, it’s important for you to know that I am the 
30 sole judge of the law. It’s your duty to accept the law as I explain it to you. You 
31 mustn’t use your own ideas about what the law is or should be. And you mustn’t rely on
 32 information about the law from any source outside the courtroom.
 33
 34 I want to speak to you for a moment about the conduct of a jury. It’s important that all
 35 persons concerned with this trial be convinced that this has been a fair and impartial 
36 proceeding. Your conduct in and outside the courtroom is important to achieving that
 37 goal. Because of that, you mustn’t discuss this case with anyone or let anyone tell you
 38 anything about this case outside the courtroom. Some of your family or friends or fellow
 39 workers, or others perhaps, may ask about your jury duty. Don’t talk to them about the
 40 case. If necessary, tell them the judge ordered you not to talk to them about the case. If 
41 anyone persists in trying to discuss the case with you or tries to communicate with you 
135
 1 about this case in some fashion, in any fashion whatsoever, you should inform me about 
2 that, and I’ll deal with it. There are severe penalties for anyone who attempts to interfere 
3 with the duties of a juror.

 4
 5 If you need to inform me of something or if you’re concerned about something, you
 6 should begin by speaking with the jury officer. That person will then advise me of the
 7 problem, and I’ll deal with it. 
8
 9 You shouldn’t discuss this case with anyone involved in it, including the accused 
10 Mr. Harms, his friends or family members, or any witnesses, investigating officers, or 
11 indeed lawyers. You may, of course, give a polite greeting to someone you may happen
 12 to see in the courthouse, but don’t talk about the case with anyone except your fellow 
13 jurors. And with regard to discussions with your fellow jurors, I would rather you didn’t 
14 discuss the evidence amongst yourselves until you start your deliberations at the end of 
15 the trial. You will probably develop impressions about the facts of the credibility of 
16 witnesses as you hear the evidence, that’s natural, but it’s also natural for your 
17 impressions to change as the trial progresses. If you have told another juror of your 
18 impression before you have heard all of the evidence, there is danger that that juror will
 19 be influenced by what you’re saying. That may impact the way another juror views the 
20 evidence which may come out later. It may also make it more difficult for you to change 
21 your first impression once you have heard all of the evidence.
Very true that "impressions change" going in they heard of what I was accused of thus forming an impression ( I probably wouldn't have been much different before I experienced what has already taken place and that of what was yet to happen) equally true is that "it's natural for your impressions to change as the trial progresses" From what I know they heard that too is the case, I find it staggering that you then tell them to go home, they and their input are no longer needed and you will be the sole judge.
22 
23 Now, I know it’s difficult for you not to talk amongst yourselves, and I know you’ll be
 24 forming impressions and tentative conclusions as the case unfolds; however, the bottom
 25 line is that you must keep an open mind until the whole case has been given to you and 
26 you then start your deliberations. You know from your own experience that a thing may
 27 not always be what it seems, and it’s unsafe and unfair to form any firm conclusion when 
28 you haven’t heard all of the relevant evidence.
 29
In fact they will never hear one single shred of any "relevant evidence"

 30 When you arrive at the courthouse each morning and return to it after lunch each
 31 afternoon, please go straight to the jury room as you have been instructed by the jury
 32 officer. When you leave at lunchtime or at the end of your duties for the day, please leave 
33 directly from the jury room. Please don’t linger around the halls or other places in the 
34 courthouse building after -- before, I should say, or after our sittings. These directions are
 35 meant to assist you from accidentally overhearing something about the case or 
36 accidentally running into someone else who is involved in it when you’re outside the 
37 courtroom. 
38
Although these instructions were given to my accuser as well, she still escaped the secure witness room and was amongst those of the police and her mother where she wasn't supposed to be. As you will see , when addressed by the judge about it she denies this  and then makes excuse.
 39 Each day during the trial you will be permitted to separate and return to your homes each 
40 day. However, once you have started to deliberate at the end of the trial, or at the end of 
41 the evidence, and after hearing from counsel and from myself about the law, you will 
136 
1 remain together until you have reached your verdict. 
2
 3 Briefly with regard to trial procedure, there are two counsel before you. Crown counsel is
 4 Ms. Joyce. The Crown prosecutes the case. Defence counsel is Ms. Hayes. She 
5 represents the accused, Joseph Aaron Harms, who is, of course, on trial here.
 6 
7 Inafew minutes I’ll invite Ms. Joyce to outline to you the evidence she intends to 
8 present. This is done in an effort to assist you in understanding the case, but what
 9 Ms. Joyce says is not evidence or proof of anything, as I have already mentioned. It’s 
10 simply a statement of what she intends to prove. 
11
 12 Once Ms. Joyce is done, she will call a witness or witnesses as part of her case. She’ll 
13 ask questions of the witnesses she calls. Once Ms. Joyce completes her questioning, 
14 Ms. Hayes will then have an opportunity to cross-examine that witness. After 
15 cross-examination is completed, I may allow Ms. Joyce to ask the witness some additional 
16 questions to clarify any matters that have been raised for the first time in 
17 cross-examination. That same process will be followed for every witness called by the 
18 Crown. And if the defence calls any witnesses, the same process will play out in reverse. 
19 
20 Ms. Joyce will call the complainant, Angel Roberts, to testify before you at this trial.
 21 Ms. Roberts will testify behind a screen. It’s the screen you see across the courtroom to
 22 my left. I have ordered that this procedure be followed in this case. It is not unusual. 
23 You must not draw any adverse inference against the accused, or for that matter, against
 24 the witness, because this procedure has been used. 
25
Oh really, say what ever did happen to the constitutional right to face your accuser in court? The use of "the screen" more like a wall was used so that my accuser wouldn't feel intimidated to testify. She uses this to her own will and blatantly abuses it whenever she decides. While the Jury and I watch her from T.V screens, she comes and goes in the future as pleases. Including coming in the wrong way to walk past me, stand in the lunch line next to me and eat her lunch at the next table to mine.This too I am certain the jury saw and yet will never be afforded any input.
 26 After the Crown closes its case, Ms. Hayes decides whether or not she intends to call 
27 evidence. If -- I’m sorry -- if Ms. Hayes decides to call evidence, she will then have an
 28 opportunity to make an opening statement to you just as Ms. Joyce will. Again, if she 
29 chooses to do so, remember that any statement made by Ms. Hayes as an opening is not 
30 evidence, but it’s only a summary of what she expects the evidence to be.
Again, sadly Ms Hayes will never get the chance to bring ANY evidence let alone for a Jury member to hear. She does get to cross examine that which was examined in chief but we do not get as far as showing any evidence and the judge ends it before we could. I would like to believe things would have been much different had we been able to.
 31
 32 I have said or have used the expression if Ms. Joyce decides -- if, I’m sorry, Ms. Hayes 
33 decides to call evidence. I’m emphasizing that because it’s fundamentally important, as 
34 I’ll remind you in a moment, that you understand that all persons charged with criminal
 35 offences in our legal system are presumed to be innocent. This means they don’t have to 
36 prove their innocence. While they may choose to do so, they do not have to testify or 
37 present evidence.
Fundamentally wrong is his statement here. Not only did I have to prove my innocence but reprove it time and time again.Arduously prove it. Yes I was going to testify however it was a chance that they would never grant me as you will see.
 38
 39 It’s the duty of lawyers involved in this case to bring out the evidence and to question 
40 witnesses as they see fit. That’s not your function nor is it my function, subject to the
 41 requirements of the law. You and I have no role in the calling or questioning of 
137
 1 witnesses. You and I will sit and listen carefully to what the witnesses and counsel say.
 2
 3 As the case proceeds, I may from time to time have to make rulings on some legal
 4 matters, including evidence. We have, in Canada, a well-developed body of law which 
5 guides us on these subjects. If such issues arise, it will probably be necessary for you to
 6 leave the courtroom while such questions are being discussed. If you’re asked to leave
 7 the courtroom, please don’t speculate about what’s going on in your absence. We are not
 8 trying to hide anything from you. Sometimes, however, the law may not allow a
 9 particular question to be answered or a particular fact to become evidence before you. If 
10 the answer is not permitted or the fact not entered in evidence before you, don’t try to 
11 guess about what it might have been. I assure you that you will hear all of the evidence 12 which according to law may be placed before you.
As were the actions several times from my accuser, They didn't get to fully see her antics.
13
 14 Once you have heard all of the evidence that the Crown has presented and any evidence 
15 that the defence may present, I will call upon each of the lawyers to address you to tell 
16 you what they want you to do with this case and why. I will then follow their addresses
 17 to you with my instructions on the law. My instructions will be designed to give you the 
18 legal boundaries for your decision on the facts which are entirely your purview. 
19
 20 When they address you, the lawyers may summarize the evidence they intend to present
 21 or have presented and they may refer to some principles of law. What they say about the
 22 evidence is not, of course, evidence itself. And what they say about the law is only
 23 meant to help you understand the issues to which the evidence may relate. It is for me as
 24 the trial judge to instruct you on what rules of law apply and what they mean. Again,
 25 you must follow my instructions on the law. If there is a difference between what I say 
26 and what counsel say about the law, you must follow my instructions.
 27
One would wonder then with all they seen and heard why you wouldn't have let them deliberate and grant myself an Acquittal? Instead you force the hand for me to reelect to go judge alone to achieve that.
 28 In my final instructions to you, I will review or include a review of some of the evidence
 29 that you have heard during trial. You should always remember, however, that it is your 
30 memory and understanding of the evidence that counts in this case, not mine and not that 
31 of counsel.
 32
 33 If you wish to make notes during the trial to help you remember what a witness said, you,
 34 of course, may do so. You may find it difficult, however, to take detailed, accurate notes
 35 and at the same time pay close attention to what witnesses are saying and how they are 
36 saying it. And so if you do take notes, please don’t be distracted from your duty to 
37 observe the witness. You may always ask to have a witness’s testimony read back to you,
 38 but you only have one chance to observe the appearance and the behaviour of the witness 
39 when he or she testifies. To protect the confidentiality of your work, you mustn’t take
 40 your notes away with you at the end of the sittings each day. We will make arrangements 
41 to keep your notes in a secure place and return them to you when we resume sitting the
 138
Ironic is that he says this yet doesn't back it. When she was questioned about escaping the secured area within the judge's chambers out into the public area they were not in the room when she denied it and then gave you an admitting bullshit answer.
 1 following day.
 2
 3 I want to pause for a moment to talk about a couple of fundamental matters of 
4 importance, which I have already alluded to. The first is the presumption of innocence.
 5 It is the first and most important principle of law applicable to every criminal case.
 6 Mr. Harms enters these proceedings presumed to be innocent, and the presumption of
 7 innocence remains throughout the case unless the Crown, on the evidence put before you, 
8 satisfies you beyond a reasonable doubt that he’s guilty. 
10 Two rules flow from the presumption of innocence. One is that the Crown bears the 
11 burden of proving guilt; the other is that guilt must be proved, as I say, beyond a 
12 reasonable doubt. These rules are inextricably linked with the presumption of innocence 
13 to ensure that no innocent person is wrongly convicted.
 14 
15 As you have heard, Mr. Harms is charged with a series of alleged offences. The burden 
16 of proving the charges rests, as I say, with the Crown. There is no burden on Mr. Harms 
17 to prove that he’s innocent. He doesn’t have to prove anything. I will in due course 
18 explain the elements of the offences in detail at the end of the trial. For now you must 
19 remember that if the Crown fails to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt on any or
 20 all of the counts before the Court, Mr. Harms is entitled to be acquitted of any or all of 
21 those unproven counts.
Mere words and couldn't be further from the truth in its applications and how I was dealt with.
 22
 23 With respect to the expression beyond a reasonable doubt, what does it mean? A
 24 reasonable doubt is not an imaginary or frivolous doubt. It’s not a doubt that’s based on 
25 sympathy for or prejudice against anyone involved in these proceedings. Rather, it’s based
 26 on reason and common sense. It’s a doubt that arises logically from the evidence or from 
27 an absence of evidence. It’s virtually impossible to prove anything to an absolute
 28 certainty, and the Crown is not required to do so. Such a standard would be impossibly 
29 high. However, the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt falls much closer to 
30 absolute certainty than it does to probable guilt. 31 32 You must not find Mr. Harms guilty unless you are sure he’s guilty. Even if you believe
 33 that Mr. Harms is probably guilty or likely guilty, that isn’t sufficient. In those 
34 circumstances you must give the benefit of the doubt to Mr. Harms and find him not 
35 guilty, because in those circumstances the Crown would have failed to satisfy you of his 
36 guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. 
37
So why were they excused?
 38 In conclusion, I want to convey a few further details regarding the trial that you are about 
39 to hear.
 40
 41 At this point there is no need for you to appoint anyone to chair your discussions until 
139
 1 you retire to begin to consider your verdict. Your deliberations are secret. Except for 
2 telling me about any problems that you may be having through the jury officer, you must 
3 not tell anyone anything about your deliberations, to do so would be a criminal offence.
 4 You should feel confident that what happens in the jury room will always be private. 
5 This is to encourage full and frank discussion with your fellow jurors. In other words,
 6 you need not worry that something you say in the jury room will be repeated anywhere
 7 else.
 8
 9 If something happens during the course of the trial that may affect your ability to do your 
10 duty as a juror, please write it down, make a note of it, put in it in a sealed envelope and 
11 deliver it to the jury officer, who will then give it to me.
 12
 13 If at any time you have trouble seeing or hearing any part of these proceedings, please let
 14 me know. Just put your hand up and tell me. 
15
 16 We will start the case each day at 10:00 a.m., subject to any difficulties we may have 
17 with witness schedules, and continue until 4:30 p.m. with typically a 15-minute break at
 18 mid-morning and in mid-afternoon. The precise time of these things may vary from 
19 day-to-day by a few minutes. We will try to break at around 12:30 each day for a lunch 
20 break. It may be that on some days we’ll finish somewhat earlier or later than these 
21 scheduled times. It’s difficult sometimes to predict precisely how long a witness will take
 22 to give his or her evidence. The lawyers do their best, as does the Court, to ensure that 
23 each day is filled up, but it doesn’t always work out that way. 
24
 25 And so in final conclusion to this point, I thank you very much for your attention. I will 
26 now call on Ms. Joyce for her opening statement.
 27
 28 Opening by Ms. Joyce
 29
 30 MS. JOYCE: Thank you, My Lord. And good morning to
 31 the ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
 32
 33 As I have been introduced, I am Crown counsel in this matter, and this is my opportunity
 34 to provide to you a summary of the case that the Crown intends to present. And the 
35 purpose of this is to provide kind of a roadmap for you as you listen to the evidence and 
36 a direction of where we intend to go.
 37
 38 Even though you don’t have what we might consider a very lengthy trial in front of you, 
39 you certainly have witnesses to hear from, and having this idea and indication of what the
 40 Crown intends to present to you may be helpful to you because I can’t promise you that 
41 this will be like a courtroom drama that’s concluded in an hour or even two hours, and I 
140 
1 can’t promise you that it’s going to be like the highlights on the news of any courtroom
 2 things you might see. You’re going to hear from three witnesses for the Crown. Some
 3 may be longer than others, and it’s good to have an idea of where the Crown is intending
 4 to go.
 5
 6 I said I can’t promise you some things, and I’m actually going to be asking things of you. 
7 You heard Madam Clerk say to you "harken unto the evidence." I’m not going to use
 8 that word harken. I’m just going to ask you to listen. And I’m going to ask you to listen 
9 to Angel Roberts as she testifies to you. That while she’s 18 years old now, in May of 
10 2011 she was 15 years old and the stepdaughter of the accused.
 11
 12 Listen and you will hear how she went home on May 21st of 2011 and went into her 
13 bedroom. That the accused came into her bedroom, and he had been drinking. That an
 14 argument began, and that that was not necessarily unusual. But on this day, the argument
 15 did not end until Ms. Roberts was without her shirt, without her bra, and without her 
16 pants, crying on her bed. 
17
 18 Listen to Angel Roberts, and you will hear how the accused grabbed her face and pushed
 19 her into a wall. How he ordered her to take off her clothes, her shirt, and her bra. And
 20 when she refused to take off her pants, he pulled them off himself. You will hear what he
 21 said to her if she did -- of what would happen if she did not comply with him. You will
 22 hear how he went on to touch her breasts, how he went on to kiss her, and he went on to
 23 touch her even further than that.
This is what the crown intends to prove so from here on out it is deffinately maliscious prosecution as without a doubt she should know the case and the DNA results, the "crime scene photo's that she doesn't have, how the clothing seized was destroyed, how there isn't even an interview tape and yet the day earlier in was conceeded that they in fact taped it.how my accusers story has changed so very many times, how other then a person who has falsely accused 11 others now accuses myself. Finally, how I physically could not have done this act I was accused of.
24
 25 I ask you to listen to Samantha Roberts, who is the mother of Angel Roberts, as she tells
 26 you about coming home on that day and finding her daughter in her bedroom, sobbing.
 27
This is false and misleading to the jury because in fact her mother wrote a letter on my behalf that her daughter was a liar.How in fact she has done so before. How in fact she gave her mother such a hard time that she sent her to go live with her god mother just days after the allegations, a stay that lasted a month. In fact that letter was sealed into evidence, the courts have it and her mother was a hostile witness and was not there for the crown. In fact her mother never does testify in any regard.
 28 And I’ll ask you to listen to Constable Folk of the RCMP who will tell you about going 
29 to the same residence on that day, finding Angel Roberts very upset, and then going on to 
30 find the accused, and Constable Folk will tell you about the state that he found the 
31 accused in.
 32
I find this atrociously misleading to the jury because the day earlier the same judge ruled Constable Folk to be "not credible" and the statement he added in alleging a confession of sorts was ruled inadmissible. The judge also ruled that he had violated my rights under the constitution several times in ever growing severity. Please read the Voir dire hearing for more information.
 33 I will ask you to listen carefully to all of the testimony of each of those witnesses, and I
 34 submit that you will be satisfied after hearing those witnesses that the accused committed
 35 the offences that you have already heard about today -- that being assault, sexual assault,
 36 sexual touching of a person under the age of 15, and sexual touching of a person -- of a
 37 young person in a relation of dependency. That when you hear what the accused did in 
38 that bedroom, when you hear his relationship to Angel, a 15-year-old girl, that you will be
 39 satisfied on all of the evidence that those offences are made out. 
40
 41 I’ll leave those as my comments, not very lengthy, but again this is just a roadmap for
 141
 1 you of what the Crown intends to provide to you. And, of course, as My Lord has said,
 2 the evidence is only what comes from the witness stand.
Hours later with the same vigor she requests an Acquittal for myself, something she didn't have to do but rather chose to do befor any more dirt came out in front of the jury of just what they had all done towards me.
3
 4 And we will -- are prepared to proceed to call evidence now, Sir. 
5
 6 THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Joyce. If you’ll arrange to call 7 your first witness.
 8
 9 MS. JOYCE: And I’ll just -- I am not certain how that is to 10 occur with the screen that you had mentioned.
 11
 12 THE COURT: With the -- yes. Madam Clerk, I’m sure, can
 13 assist us. 
14
 15 THE COURT CLERK: Certainly, Sir.
 16
 17 MS. JOYCE: Thank you, Sir. She is currently just outside
 18 the -- outside the courtroom. 
19
 20 THE COURT: I think the idea, Ms. Joyce, is that the witness
 21 will come in from the back. 
22
 23 MS. JOYCE: Oh, thank you. I wasn’t sure about that.
 24 
25 THE COURT: That’s where Madam Clerk went.
 26
 27 MS. JOYCE: Thank you. I believe that that’s what
 28 happened. 
29
 30 THE COURT: Terrific.
 31
 32 Ladies and gentlemen, I’ll -- if you haven’t noticed, let me explain, I might have said this
 33 earlier, the witness will be testifying behind the screen. Technology allows us to all see 
34 her as she gives her evidence, so please pay attention to the monitor. 
35
 36 ANGEL ROBERTS, Sworn, Examined by Ms. Joyce
 37 
38 THE COURT CLERK: Thank you, Sir. 
39 
40 THE COURT: Thank you, Madam Clerk.
 41
 142
 1 Ms. Joyce.
 2
 3 MS. JOYCE: Thank you, Sir.
 4
 5 Q MS. JOYCE: Ms. Roberts, how old are you?
 6 A I’m 18.
 7
 8 Q And what is your birthday? 
9 A August 22nd, 1995. 
10 
11 Q In May of 2011, how old were you? 
12 A I was 15. 
13
 14 Q Where were you living when you were 15 years old? 
15 A In Athabasca on 4816-53rd Street. 
16
 17 Q And Athabasca is in the province of Alberta? 
18 A Yes. 
19
 20 Q What kind of a place did you live in?
 21
 22 THE JURY OFFICER: Excuse me, My Lord. Some of the jurors are 
23 having difficulty hearing the witness.
This was a problem as well at the preliminary hearings.When My accuser lies she goes very quiet. You will see a trend coming up.
24
 25 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Officer.
 26
 27 Can we. . . 
28 
29 Let’s see if that helps. 
30
 31 Q MS. JOYCE: Ms. Roberts, what kind of a place were you 
32 living in in that -- when you were 15 years old? 
33 A I don’t understand the question. 
34
 35 Q Was it a house, an apartment?
 36 A It was a house. 
37
 38 Q Did anyone live with you?
 39 A Yes. I mean, no, at the time, no, just my mother and Joseph. 
40
Remember she is not mentally retarded, she just acts difficult. Answers questions her own way.
41 Q What is Joseph’s last name? 
143
 1 A Harms.
 2
 3 Q What relationship did Joseph Harms have to you?
 4 A He was my stepfather.
 5
 6 Q And by the time you were 15 years old, how long had you known Joseph Harms?
 7 A Since I was nine years old.
 8
 9 Q How long had he lived with you and your mother? 
10 A He was living with my mother longer, I was living with my grandmother, but I think
 11 nine years. 
12 
13 Q What kind of a relationship did you see yourself having with Mr. Harms? How did 
14 you -- how would you categorize the relationship?
 15 A It was kind of like a person with a bipolar disorder. It was good the one minute, and 
16 then the next minute it went downhill.
I certainly don't think this was appropriate yet her chance to take a shot at me as the very nature of her response is odd. Accusatory, labeling me some kind of monster. The very thing she was coached on as I too had to endure mock trials by the defense lawyers.
17
 18 Q And in terms of -- I’ll be more specific. If you were to have introduced Mr. Harms to 
19 someone in that period of time, how would you have described him? This is 
20 Mr. Harms, and he is my -- how would you have described him?
 21 A This is Joseph Harms. He’s my stepfather. To people who didn’t know about what
 22 was going on behind closed doors, I said -- would say he’s a nice, hardworking 
23 person.
 24  I may not have been the most attentive father, there all the time. Thank you for saying "I was nice" but in truth I'm sure there are those that thought I was an asshole, such as my rig hands, for the mere fact that I was hard working. But that was all I was, a hard working guy, no monster.
 25 Q When you were 15 years old -- and this may be the same now, but it may have been 
26 different when you were 15 -- how tall were you? 
27 A I don’t know. 
28
 29 Q Can you give an idea of your weight or body size when you were 15 years old? 
30 A No, I can’t.
 31 I can, the doctors said you were severely overweight and we were admonished because of it. As such as it was a problem regulating your medication verses body mass.
 32 Q Just thinking in your own mind of yourself and compare yourself to Mr. Harms, what
 33 was his body size compared to yours?
 34 A He -- he was bigger, wider bones. Overall a bigger, taller person. 
35
 36 Q Do you know the age of Mr. Harms?
 37 A Forty, I believe.
 38
 39 Q I understand that in May of 2011 something occurred that’s called you to testify in 
40 court today, and I would like you to begin with what you first remember from that 
41 incident.
 144
 1 A Waking up.
 2
 3 Q Where did you wake up?
 4 A In my own bed.
where else would you wake up smart ass.
 5
 6 Q And do you recall what time of the day that would have been?
 7 A 9:00’ish. I can’t remember.
 8 
9 Q And what happened after you woke up, Ms. Roberts?
 10 A I -- I don’t feel like answering this question.
She attempts this because previously she was allowed to come and go off the stand whenever she liked, dragging out the hearings in attempts to gain sympathy and that what she craves and that is good or negative attention, as long as all eyes are on her she is content.Yet this is now trial and the rules have changed.Her story is about to be scrutinized in front of a jury and that is why I chose to have a jury trial which I was assured would be a disaster for me. I did so because the judges were simply not following law and allowing her to control and manipulate the proceedings at will.Those 12 jurors became my witnesses to the circus the government was allowing to go on.
11
 12 Q Can you explain why you don’t feel like answering that question, Ms. Roberts?
 13 A Because I can’t remember. 
14
Really? because you seem to come up with quite the tale of woe, you say "you can't remember"because it didn't happen as you will see.in fact you actually get into an argument with my attorney about "how good your memory is, even over time".
 15 Q Ms. Roberts, do you remember speaking to a police officer in May of 2011? 
16 A Yes. 
17 
18 Q Do you remember providing a statement to that police officer? 
19 A Yes.
 20
 21 Q If you had an opportunity to look at that statement, might it refresh your memory as to 
22 what happened?
 23 A Yes, it would.
 24
 25 MS. JOYCE: I’m going to ask for -- make an application for 
26 that opportunity, Sir.
 27
 28 MS. HAYES: To review her statement?
 29 
30 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 31
 32 MS. HAYES: Certainly, Sir. If she wants to review her
 33 statement, the defence doesn’t object.
 34
 35 THE COURT: Thank you. Please proceed.
 36
 37 MS. JOYCE: Thank you.
 38 
39 A I’m -- I’m tired.
 40
Are you kidding me? Tired? again a tactic she used before to dodge things, questions and statements.
 41 THE COURT: Pardon me?
 145
 1
 2 A I’m tired.
 3 Clearly even though she is now 18, she is still screwed in the head. "I'm tired "or "I'm hungry", were the juvenile ways in which you were able to dodge questions, buy time to come up with answers and or seek the advise of your mother.
 4 MS. HAYES: Sir, perhaps if she’s going to review her 
5 statement, I don’t think my friend is going to propose to lead her through line by line
 6 through her statement or anything to that effect, so perhaps the appropriate thing to do 
7 here is take a brief break to actually allow Ms. Roberts to read the statement. 
8
 9 THE COURT: Any thoughts on that?
 10
 11 MS. JOYCE: I would -- 
12
 13 THE COURT: I don’t know how long it is. I can’t tell. 
14
 15 MS. JOYCE: It’s not very long, Sir, and I would appreciate 
16 that opportunity for her to look at her -- at it right now without, I guess, the pressure of 
17 the Court and the jury. 
18
 19 THE COURT: Well, we have only been here for a relatively 
20 short time, but I think it does make sense at this juncture to adjourn briefly. If you’ll go
 21 with the jury officer, we’ll invite you back in presently. Thank you.
 22
 23 (JURY RETIRES)
 24
 25 THE COURT: Thank you. So shall we adjourn briefly? 
26
 27 MS. JOYCE: Yes, please, Sir.
 28
 29 THE COURT: I will await Madam Clerk’s call to let me know
 30 that we’re ready to go back -- get back into things. All right? 
31
 32 MS. JOYCE: Thank you, Sir. I appreciate that. 
33
 34 (ADJOURNMENT) 
35
 36 THE COURT: Thank you. Please be seated.
 37
Now this is something that you don't know or can tell from the transcripts. There are 2 doors ,one on either side of the judge. Door one is for the jury and door two is for the judge. No one else is allowed in there accept the judge and Madam clerk or the judges assistant. Police, crown and defense lawyers are not allowed, I certainly am not allowed nor are the courtroom sheriffs. Yet My accuser is!. She goes into a secured room to view her statement. During this she escapes, runs free and actually goes out into the public area where all the other "witnesses are" a place she isn't supposed to be and the judge will have heartedly address this later after lunch.
 38 So we are, of course, without the jury. I understand you -- Counsel, that you have some 
39 notion of what I understand to be a difficulty. I’ll tell you what I know about it, and 
40 we’re on the record of course. 
41
 146
 1 Since Ms. Roberts left us to review her statement, and I don’t have note of the exact time,
 2 but the record will show, she has been given a room to sit in, and -- with the statement. 
3 She has indicated some reluctance to read the entire statement. She’s indicated, more 
4 fundamentally, a reluctance to come back into the courtroom, saying she’s tired, hungry,
 5 words to that effect. I’m relying on the information I have been provided by Madam
 6 Clerk on these points. Of course, I have had nothing to do with her personally. The -- 
7 and so the question is how we proceed in the face of this measure of reluctance.
 8
 9 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
She is tired and hungry? are you kidding me? who in the hell would want to eat talking about this. Yet this is her game, adolescent in nature but like I said it worked for her before. In previous court dates I would remember the courtroom sheriff's making comments to each other "just what kind of bullshit is this, they are actually allowing her to confer with her mother?" In fact I had a sheriff apologize to me during preliminary inquiry for all I am being put through.
 10
 11 THE COURT: It seems to me, Ms. Joyce, that while the
 12 witness is in the midst of chief, and of course I’ll hear from Ms. Hayes on this point as 
13 well, but it seems to me that you may well have an opportunity -- it may be appropriate 
14 in these circumstances to give you an opportunity, if you wish to exercise it, to have a 
15 conversation with your witness.
 16
 17 THE COURT CLERK: I’m sorry for interrupting, Sir. I see the witness 
18 outside of the door. That’s her, I believe. 
19
 20 THE COURT: Unless it’s her mother. Do they look alike?
 21
 22 MS. JOYCE: Yes, I believe that is her.
 23
 24 THE COURT: That’s the witness?
 25
 26 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 27
 28 THE COURT: Okay.
 29
 30 THE COURT CLERK: Should I bring her this way, or maybe she 
31 wants to tell me something. I don’t know. 
32
This was her that had somehow gotten from a secured area near the judges chambers into the public area and was attempting to come through the front doors! yet she needed to be on a monitor or T.V screen to testify
 33 THE COURT: I think she should come around, Madam Clerk.
 34
 35 THE COURT CLERK: Sure.
 36 
37 THE COURT: I’m going to -- let me just finish my train of
 38 thought. It seems to me that there is at least a possibility that you could speak with the
 39 witness -- not of course about her evidence, not about her -- the merits, but about her 
40 apparent reluctance and what is it that’s -- that’s the problem. And then depending on
 41 what you’re told, you could then consider your position. Now, I don’t know if that’s --
 147
 1 that’s my understanding based on not a lot of research or consideration, but it seems to
 2 me that there is at least the possibility of that. There may be other --
 3
 4 All right. So for the record the witness has joined us in the courtroom absent the jury. 
5
 6 MS. JOYCE: Yes, Sir.
You see the jury did not see this. My accuser then walks through the front doors, nearly touching me as she passed and then they put her back into door number 2, until the jury was present.
7
 8 THE COURT CLERK: Do you want me to go call them?
 9 
10 THE COURT: No, not just yet. Thanks. 11 12 THE COURT CLERK: Hold on a second. 
13
 14 THE COURT: I’m sorry. I think we need to -- Counsel, what I 
15 intend to do is simply ask the witness if she is in a position to proceed from where we 
16 left off, which was to give her an opportunity to review her statement. Is that 
17 appropriate?
18
 19 MS. JOYCE: I think it is, Sir.
 20
 21 THE COURT: All right. Take it one step at a time. 
22
 23 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 24
 25 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Roberts, it’s Justice Michalyshyn
 26 speaking. All right? 
27
 28 A Yeah.
 29
 30 THE COURT: Are you in a position now to proceed with your 
31 evidence?
 32
 33 A Yes, I am.
 34
 35 THE COURT: All right. Then I propose to have the jury
 36 come back and join us.
 37 
38 MS. JOYCE: Thank you.
 39 
40 THE COURT: Thank you, Madam Clerk.
 41
 148
 1 (JURY ENTERS)
 2
 3 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please be
 4 seated. 
5
 6 Counsel acknowledge the jury is present?
 7
 8 MS. JOYCE: I do, Sir.
 9
 10 MS. HAYES: I do, Sir.
 11 
12 THE COURT: Thank you very much.
 13
 14 Ms. Roberts, do you acknowledge that you remain under oath?
 15
 16 A Yes.
 17 
18 THE COURT: Thank you.
 19
 20 Ms. Joyce.
 21
 22 MS. JOYCE: Thank you, My Lord.
 23
 24 Q MS. JOYCE: Ms. Roberts, just before we broke to allow you
 25 to review your statement, I asked you what happened after you woke up. What did 
26 happen after you woke up? 
27 A Joseph was fighting with my mother about me wanting to go to my mother’s work, 
28 and I basically ended up going with her and -- yeah. 
29
 30 Q What’s your -- 
31
 32 MS. HAYES: Sorry, I don’t mean to interrupt my friend. 
33
 34 THE COURT: Ms. Joyce, I apologize, but I didn’t get all of
 35 that. 
36 
37 MS. HAYES: I can’t -- I’m having a very difficult time
 38 hearing her so perhaps if she could speak up. I -- I don’t mean to be --
 39
 40 THE COURT: Yes. Ms. Roberts, I’m -- if you could speak
 41 just a little bit louder, please, that would be -- help all of us. Thank you.
 149
 1
 2 Can you go back to that question, please.
 3
 4 Q MS. JOYCE: I’ll repeat the question, Ms. Roberts, and if you 
5 could indicate your answer again. What happened after you woke up?
 6 A Joseph was fighting with my mother about me wanting to go to her work, and I ended 
7 up going with her.
If her mother was at work and she was , how is it possible she could know if I was arguing with her mother or not?
 8
 9 Q What is your mother’s name? 
10 A Samantha. 
11
 12 Q And does she have the same last name as you?
 13 A Yes.
 14
 15 Q Where does your mother work -- or, pardon me, where did she work in May of 2011? 
16 A Home Hardware. 
17
 18 Q Is that in the same town that you were living, in Athabasca? 
19 A Yes, it was.
 20
 21 Q So what happened after you ended up going with your mother?
 22 A Well, when Joseph woke up, he started calling my mother’s work requesting me to go 
23 home and do some chores.
She just kinda dodges the question.
 24
 25 Q Did you get those requests yourself, or did they come from your mother?
 26 A They came from my mother. 
27 
28 Q And what did you do after you got those requests? 
29 A I didn’t want to go home.
I thought she was home?
 30
 31 Q What did you do?
 32 A I was asking my mother and -- asking her if I could stay at her work. 
33
 34 Q Were you able to stay at her work?
 35 A No, I wasn’t because Joseph was calling constantly, and the manager was getting very
 36 mad. And my mother had told me that if I didn’t go home, she would get fired from 
37 her job.
Precisely why we had my phone records as this also is untrue, yet we never got to call any evidence the courts just made it go away.
38
 39 Q When your mother said that, what did you do?
 40 A I didn’t want to go home. 
41
 150
 1 Q Can you tell the jury what you did do?
 2 A Well, I think it was finally that Joseph had came to my mother’s work to come and 
3 get me, and all I remember seeing was a gray bag, and I recognized what it was, it
 4 was alcohol, and he was buying plants and soil, and he was buying patio blocks and
 5 he wanted to buy patio furniture for the weekend. That was the plan because it was 
6 May long weekend. He wanted to try and do something as a family.
The underlined portion is about as truthful as she gets. I awoke at 11:00 ish. .I had a Doctors appointment for my back and I was in a full back brace. My accuser went with me to that appointment. On my blog you will see the doctors file stamped that very day I was accused. I couldn't walk well, lay down or stand for periods of time . I had a herniated disk in the L5-S1 area.The medical file even states that I couldn't lift more than 20 lbs.Yet this too escaped everyone because even the police admit "he was in excruciating pain" and they took off the brace before arresting me.She will even acknowledge the doctor later by name, yet not say she was with me or anything.
 7
 8 Q Where did you see the gray bag with the alcohol?
 9 A It was -- he was clearly trying to hide it from my mother because it was in a Home
 10 Hardware bag.
During the preliminary inquiry she was asked how she knew it was alcohol, My lawyer asked "did you see it"? she responded "no". My lawyer asked " did you see him with a bottle that day?,did you see him crack one?, did you see him mix a drink?,did you see him drink?...to all of these she said "NO". 
 11
 12 Q What happened -- and, I’m sorry. You said he, but who were you talking about --
 13 A Joseph.
 14 What happened to the name game? At the preliminary inquiry you asked if "do I have to keep saying his name?" They allowed you to call me the "accused". Or as the dipstick crown that propelled this whole thing liked to call me "Joshua"
 15 Q -- when you said he? What happened after Joseph came to the workplace? 
16 A Basically told me I had to go home. And I went home, left. We had to take a taxi 
17 because we had a lot of -- we had a lot of stuff that he had bought from Home 
18 Hardware and -- yeah. Isn't it ironic that at the preliminary inquiry you testified under oath that "You never took a cab with me and in fact said that" you walked home"
 After my doctors appointment , together we went the further 2 blocks to her mother's work. I did purchase a great number of things and what could be delivered was. We took the cab with the rest. Rick my friend put in and took out all the items at each end of the trip. In her initial statement she states that while I took a cab, she chose to walk. I do believe she also stated this in the preliminary hearing. In fact she was asked "why did you walk home"? she states " because I have two legs".
 19
 20 Q What happened after you took the taxi?
 21 A We took a taxi, and we went home. And at that point he had requested me to do the
 22 dishes, clean and mop -- I mean, sorry, sweep and mop the floors and clean the
 23 bathroom and make my bed. Once all that was done, I -- I didn’t want to be home
 24 anymore, and Joseph basically told me to leave, so I left.
This is nothing like she states before. In fact she was asked to help me by lifting and pouring the grass seed into the spreader. I was going to attempt to seed my grass. She refused and I said well if you don't want to help me and your just going to pester me then go to your mothers work and she did so.
 25
 26 Q Where did you go?
 27 A I went back to my mother’s work, sat downstairs. And he was -- at that point started
 28 drinking and the calls didn’t stop. My mother was getting mad at me because she
 29 didn’t want to lose her job. I remember it was raining, and I remember I had to go
 30 back home. And my mom -- my mother was telling me and requesting me, Angel,
 31 just do your chores, do your homework, and just, please, try and get along with 
32 Joseph.
33
 34 So I can’t remember if Joseph came and got me or I had to walk home, but I
 35 remember I was at home, I opened the door -- I didn’t even have to open it. I seen it
 36 open, not all the way, and I thought that was very odd because Joseph is the kind of 
37 person, too, who OCDs about locking the door at night, during the day, got mad at me 
38 if I didn’t lock it at night or if I didn’t lock it after coming home. He was obsessed 
39 with locking the doors, and I found it slightly open.
 All of this is none sense. First how could she know if I drank or not if she was at her mothers work? Second she states now she can't remember if I came and got her or not but then describes that the door was open and I wasn't home.Third she just takes another shot at me by labeling me a bunch of crazy things that she was told to throw in whenever possible. The truth is that her mother had called me, asked , rather begged me to let her come home because she was being rude and obnoxious as usual to her mother's work colleagues. I told her mother to find some things for her to do after an argument that why should I have to put up with her.? Because she was coming home I actually went to my neighbors, left the door ajar because she did not have keys.She also states that it was raining, no it wasn't and that is imperative because of the obvious. Later you will hear her read the weather report and in fact admit it wasn't raining further showing this to be all made up.
 40 
41 I walked in. I heard loud music. Joseph is the kind of person who if my mother 
151
 1 didn’t have the energy, if she would be home before I got home from school, or if she 
2 was sitting on the couch, laying down napping, he was the kind of stepfather to always
 3 greet me, but that day was just -- it felt odd. The energy in the room just didn’t feel
 4 right.
well if I wasn't there, I wasn't there. How does this turn into something "ODD"?
6 I seen -- I seen a two-six bottle completely done, and Joseph wasn’t at home. And
 7 Joseph was the kind of person who’d always tell me or something or tell someone to
 8 tell me not to come home if he wasn’t home. But he wasn’t home. And I walked in,
 9 I closed the door. I myself locked it. I got in complete shit for locking the door.
If you looked under my counter I'm certain you would find empty beer bottles too or a wine bottle. This isn't a crime nor is it indicative of having been drinking. But apparently to her it is.I wonder what can be said about empty and washed pickle jars, BBQ sauce jars? I had been eating?
10
 11 Q What happened after you locked the door? 
12 A He -- Joseph came home, got mad, told me why did I lock the door. 
13 Again, something that is quite new and clearly not what you testified to at the preliminary inquiry.!
 14 Q Where did that happen? 
15 A It happened in the kitchen. Our door was located in the kitchen. And he had the
 16 keys, so he unlocked the door, but he came home and got mad. And the next thing
 17 you know he’s calmed down, and he’s not yelling anymore. I didn’t see him. I was in 
18 my bedroom trying to make my bed. Then I walked back out into the living room,
 19 and I seen him laying on the couch. I told him that I had swept the floors, did the
 20 dishes. I even made myself something to eat, and I did my -- I washed my bowl so
 21 that there wasn’t a bowl or a fork in the sink. He laid on the couch, and I went back 
22 to my room. I --Iforget what he was telling me. He was just so drunk. But he had
 23 told me something along the lines of he was next door at the Kramer’s (phonetic)
 24 house. I was, like, why are you at the neighbour’s house? You don’t like the 
25 neighbours because they’re alcoholics. And it was ironically funny that he hated
 26 alcoholics, but he himself was an alcoholic. And so his answer was, well, I wanted to
 27 go and talk to them, so I did. And then I asked him, well, why do you smell like
 28 alcohol? He was, like, oh, I had a drink with them. And I didn’t say much of it. I
 29 wasn’t mad. I was confused of why he was next door. Then I went back to my
 30 bedroom, continued to make my bed. And at this point I had the base sheet on my
 31 bed, and it was a white sheet with, like, a plaid pattern on it.
 32
In Fact I was next door, straightening her shit out yet again. I was talking to the boys father about how the relationship between his son who was 21 and my stepdaughter 14 was inappropriate and if the father didn't put an end to it I was in fact going to involve police. We made peace and bot the boys father and mother agreed it was inappropriate and would deal with their son.
She claims that "he was just so drunk" again proven to be false according to her description. Equally false is that of her questioning me about having drank anything, or "why do you smell like alcohol?" I owe no explanation to a 14 year old step child living in my home even if it was true that she said these things or I responded in such ways. Again she puts me in a picture of darkness and its bullshit. She labels the neighbors alcoholics, myself an alcoholic and yet there is zero proof either of us are. In fact the only one who admits to consuming alcohol and drugs is her at the preliminary inquiry and at trial when she is questioned "you knew the seriousness of attending court, yet we were all there and you were not. She admits that she went out of town as a minor and partied, to tired and hungover to attend court. While I sat in jail at the time! Yet true to form, even though they put out an arrest warrant for her to locate her, she never got into any trouble for this.
 33 Q What did the rest of your room look like? 
34 A They were a hot pink, very -- my walls, I think, were originally hot pink, and I can’t
 35 remember, but I think it was, like, an off-gray colour at this point that they were
 36 painted, my walls.
How is it she is even allowed to answer questions like this? she answers but always really weird, skirting the question with  a B.S answer like this " I think, were originally hot pink, and I can’t
 35 remember, but I think it was, like, an off-gray colour at this point that they were
 36 painted, my walls."
 37
 38 Q What kind of furniture was in your room? 
39 A A queen-size mattress.
 40
 41 Q Did it have a bed frame with it? 
152
 1 A No, it didn’t. It had a box spring and mattress. And so once I was done making my
 2 bed, Joseph came in the room, and he got mad at me. 
3
 4 Q Do you know why? 
5 A I can’t remember why. But I -- I remember the look in his eyes he -- he gets when 
6 he’s really angry at me.
Again, they are just trying to understand the room layout. Yet she takes the opportunity to state something wrong about me and when they indulge her and ask "do you know why"? she throws in a "I can't remember why" but yet goes into another accusatory statement about my demeanor.
8 Q What happened after he got angry? 
9 A He came towards me and he was angry about something, and I was asking him why 
10 he was angry, but he wasn’t saying anything. And I remember him grabbing me by the 
11 neck, and he had a fist to my temple. 
Yet although this description is clearly violent as explained,  there isn't even a red mark, bruise or any physical signs of any violence even worth a photograph by police! In fact she even states at the preliminary inquiry that He had"choked me with both hands across my neck" and my attorney "states for the record that she is explaining, showing Both hands across her neck in a choke" Within the next sentence she states"no he was grinding his fist into my head, he was gripping my jaw, he pinned me to the wall and undid my buckle, belt and zipper, ripped off my pants." Yet there is no marks, bruising, injuries, no fingerprints, DNA and physically I was incapable of such a violent occurrence.
12
 13 Q Where in your room were you when that happened? 
14 A I was above my window -- below my window, sorry. My window is oddly higher
 15 than it was supposed to be because it was an older house. And I kind of --
 16   The only thing that is"odd", you ass is you.
 17 Q And what -- 
18 A When he came towards me, I kind of sunk down in a fetal position. I had my legs -- I
 19 was trying to shield myself because he was just -- he was mad, and I was -- didn’t
 20 know why. Then he forced his hand on my neck and my temple and. . .
 21
 22 Q And then what happened Ms. Roberts?
 23 A He was choking my neck really hard, and just like that his mood changed, and he
 24 started apologizing and apologizing.
Again, similar in accusation but where when and how has changed again like so many other versions over the years to get to this point.I am upset that the crown lawyers did not see all these changes and question the matter as to its validity much sooner. Either they did so by ignorance or just plain didn't care but it is their job to vet and investigate claims, not just set out and aid someone in destroying another.
 25
 26 Q Did he say what he was apologizing for?
 27 A He was just saying sorry, and he hugged me. And it was the same bullshit like that
 28 whenever Joseph got mad about me about not doing my homework and he was
 29 drinking and took things out of proportion versus -- all I could wonder is why drink 
30 and hit someone and then apologize about it the next day and then just to relive it
 31 again, just to go through the same -- same thing. At this point, he was hugging me,
 32 and I trusted him.
Again, dodges the question and throws in a lot of filler to accuse me of being just a wrong person in every way, yet even in that no one can get any clarity from her.
33
 34 Q And what happened after he hugged you?
 35 A He pulled me on my bed, telling me to lay down. And I didn’t want to lay down. I 
36 told him I had to make my bed. I kept telling him that -- you told me to make my 
37 bed; can I please make my bed. Get off my bed. He didn’t move. Instead he
 38 grabbed my wrist and pulled me on my bed, started hugging me and cuddling me
. 39 And I didn’t think anything of it because I have known him since I was nine years -- 
40 nine years old. I thought of him at that point in my life, This is my father. This is my 
41 dad. And when I addressed him to family and friends, I called him Dad. I didn’t say 
153
 1 this is my stepfather. I called him Dad.
 2 
 3 And so I was being cuddled on my bed, and then Joseph again changes his mood and
 4 starts rubbing my back in a very sexual manner, my lower back. And I can’t 
5 remember where else -- what happened after that, but I remember being requested to
 6 take off my shirt. Joseph told me to take off your shirt. I said no. Why. Just fucking
 7 take off your shirt is what he said. Getting mad. I was still saying no. And then 
8 finally he just got all crazy and just angry and yelled at me, so I took off my shirt.
Again different from all other accounts and statements and this too will change again later in the trial.She also previously stated that I had removed her clothing. While this was being said, I just couldn't understand why she is says all of this stuff. Humiliated is an understatement, embarrassed of the accusations another. Disappointed in the courts and this is precisely why I chose to speak out in a blog about all the matters. How many men have gone through this? 
 9
 10 And at this point I was now being requested to take off my bra. I continued to say no. 
11 And as I was saying no, I said, You’re my dad. Why are you doing this to me? And 
12 I was, like, You love my mother. Why are you going to do this to me? You’re 
13 supposed to be my dad. I’m supposed to be able to trust you. And at that point he 
14 starts telling me just sexual, perverse things.
See the key words?" You're my dad, why are you doing this?,I said no,I'm supposed to be able to trust you" These aren't hers but things she was to say to evoke emotions. I looked up about victims of abuse and stuff like that, how can you tell they are lying and what not. According to many sources, those that have had this type of thing happen to them either remember it or remember nothing. It is impossible that the crown didn't know this wasn't true.
15
 16 Q Can you repeat what he said? 
17 A I can’t repeat. I can’t remember what he said. But in the past before this happened to 
18 me, I’ll bring this up, Joseph had said something along the lines of -- we were holding
 19 hands as father and daughter walking down the street, and he said to me, he’s like, I
 20 wish I was young again. And I said why. He -- when I said why, he said because I
 21 would have dated you. And all the sexual, perverse things, I can’t -- I can’t remember. 
22 And I remember I was scared, and my whole body was shaking. I --Ididn’t know
 23 how to take off my bra. I wasn’t standing up. I was laying on my bed. I stood up to 
24 take off my shirt, and I felt so hurt. And then I remember I was laying on my bed,
 25 and Joseph was yelling at me take off your bra. I didn’t -- I didn’t move my hands.
 26 So at this point I remember him undoing my bra, and he didn’t take it off fast either.
Once again dodges the question, can't remember. Adds in about other times , places ,things said and yet they just let her run. Do you think if I had done any of this previously she wouldn't have told someone? This is pure bullshit.Fact is I am not the only person she has accused of wrong. She also accused her grandfather of molestation, her childhood friend of rape, teachers of sexual undertones and actions, her mother and Uncle of attempting to kill me!, yes me and that was dealt with in court as well. She also accused 2 others after me among so many others and in each and every time she either admits to lying or outright found to be lying. Once again, the crown, judges are all aware of this yet other than the preliminary inquiry we weren't allowed to discuss it as they were separate matters. 11 allegations in 5 years is not separate! It is a habitual cruel liar knowing the power in crying wrong.
 27
 28 Q Where did that bra -- where was the clasp on that bra?
 29 A It was undone. And I remember I was trying to cover up my chest, telling him -- still 
30 fighting with him, telling him to stop, that this isn’t right, that my mother loves him,
 31 and that he’s my -- he’s my dad. And then I remember him screaming, I’m not your
 32 dad. I’m not going to be your dad anymore so why should it matter. Why should it 
33 matter what I do to you. And I said because I don’t want you to. I remember telling
 34 him, please, if you love me, please, please stop.
 35
 36 And then he started licking my -- my boob. He was licking both my boobs, and I was
 37 struggling to make him stop. In the back of my mind I was wondering how am I 
38 going to get out of this situation before it escalates. That’s all I could think. I was in 
39 shock. Fear of what might happen to me because when it came to me taking off my 
40 pants I didn’t want to, and he threatened to kill me.
Again the DNA proves this did not happen.
 41
 154
 1 Q Can you tell what words he said to you?
 2 A I’m going to kill you if you don’t do this, if you don’t take off your pants.
 3
 4 Q What happened after he said that?
 5 A I didn’t move my hands. He pulled them off. He ripped them off, along with my
 6 underwear. And at that point I was fully naked, scared. And I remember I reminded
 7 him that my mom -- Mom is going to be home soon. This isn’t -- this isn’t right. I
 8 want you to stop. And I was screaming and screaming. But when it came to him 
9 threatening to kill me, I shut up. And in the back of my mind, I was thinking how
 10 I’m going to get out of this situation. I was thinking of biting him, something, but he 
11 was just so fucking big. I couldn’t -- each and every situation and scenario I was
 12 thinking about in my head of fending him off me, it’s just -- it won’t end well.
Presumably according to her story we are on the bed, yet at preliminary inquiry she says that "he pinned me to the wall......ripped of all of my clothes,etc" 
13
 14 Q So what did you do?
 15 A And I remember the grip on my neck. And I thought there won’t be anything I could 
16 do to try and defend myself. He was playing with my nipples. Then he stopped. 
17 And when I was naked, that’s when my mom came home. Joseph ran out of my
 18 bedroom. And I was crying. The whole entire time I was telling him to stop and he
 19 was licking my nipples, I was crying. And at one point I was crying so loud he had to 
20 have his hand over my mouth.
In her original statement she says" he had disrobed, had forced her legs apart and was ready to have sex with her when her mother came home" This is false and investigators should have known this as there would be pubic hair, DNA, bruising if I had forced her legs apart. Yet there is nothing and her mother states that when she came home "he was standing in the kitchen, clothed".
 21
 22 Q And what did you think when he did that? 
23 A My window was wide open because while I was making my bed, I had my window
 24 open, and I was trying to be as loud as possible to see if one of my neighbours would
 25 be able to hear. I was loud enough to the point where Joseph had to threaten to kill 
26 me, and that’s what made me stop. 
27
 28 And then my mom got home. He flew out of my bedroom, don’t know what they 
29 were talking about. My mom came in the bedroom, but I remember hearing her, Why
 30 the -- where is Angel? And she heard me crying. And she yelled at Joseph and said,
 31 Why the fuck is she crying? What the fuck did you do to her? What did you do to 
32 my daughter? I don’t know what he said, and I remember my mom saying, Fuck that.
 33 Why is she crying?
 34
 35 She came in my bedroom. She seen me crying. I was hugging my legs to my chest,
 36 naked, rocking myself back and forth on my bed, crying. I couldn’t -- I couldn’t stop
 37 crying because the man I have known since I was nine just sexually touched my body,
 38 my parts, and he’s not supposed to. And. . . 
39
 40 Q When you say parts, what body parts of yours are you talking about?
 41 A My boobs and my nipples. And so my mother was requesting me to put on clothes. I 
155
Blah, blah, blah, seriously I can't believe someone could be so slanderous and cruel to say such things and absolutely get away with it again like she did with her other victims, even after she admits under oath!
1 was in complete shock and hurt. Completely fucking heartbroken. And she kept
 2 telling me, Angel, put on some clothes, put on some clothes. And I just only know it 
3 was hard to breathe, and I was crying. My mother finally had to grab me some
 4 clothes to put on and told me, Angel, please put on some clothes. At this point Joseph
 5 comes back in the room, and I couldn’t stop crying. He had the fucking balls to come
 6 in my bedroom. 
7
 8 Q What happened after he came in?
 9 A My mom said, Get the fuck out of her bedroom. She’s, like, Why the fuck is she 
10 naked? She’s, like, So get the fuck out of the bedroom. She had to push him out.
 11 My mom is, like -- I heard her on the outside of the door. What -- what the fuck do
 12 you think you were trying to accomplish? What were you trying to do? He was, like,
 13 I was trying to teach her a lesson. My mother is, like, Oh, really, taking off her 
14 clothes, her being naked and crying like that.
Here we see her transformation, soft spoken shy victim. To a verbal tirade of four letter words in a court of law.Because she controls the scene and it is unreal that this was entertained. Imagine if I swore once? How that would be misconstrued. 
15 
16 Q And what did you do after you heard this conversation? 
17 A I heard them fighting. And I had clothes on because my mother helped me, and I
 18 remembered I had the phone in my closet because I was -- I called my mom at her
 19 work, Carol answered, and I said it’s just me, her daughter, and I was talking to my 
20 mother, but I had the phone in there, and they were fighting.
 21
 22 Q And what did you do?
 23 A I called the cops.
 24 
25 Q What number did you call?
 26 A 911.
 27
 28 Q And what did you say when you were on the phone?
 29 A I couldn’t -- I couldn’t talk. I didn’t -- it’s not that I didn’t want to. I just found it
 30 hard to talk. I was crying a lot to a point where I couldn’t breathe, and I was gasping 
31 for air, and she -- she asked me, Do you need police, fire, or ambulance. 
32 
33 Q Were you able to say anything? 
34 A It took me a while and I was gasping for air and I was still crying and I said police.
 35
 36 Q And then what happened? 
37 A Then -- well, I remember just before I was getting dressed, I had my shirt on, and I 
38 was clinging -- clinging it to my body, but when Joseph was in the room that’s when I 
39 had called the cops. I already had them on phone, and Joseph came back in the
 40 bedroom, and my mom asked -- I gave her the phone, and she says, like -- I hung up.
 41 And she is, like, who was that? I lied because Joseph was there, and I said it’s Daylin 
156 
1 (phonetic). She -- she wants you to call her back. 
2
 3 And so my mother left. She was still yelling at Joseph. I don’t know what he was
 4 saying to her because my mother was telling him to get the fuck out of my face. Go
 5 away. I don’t want you around me right now. And she was, like, stay out of Angel’s
 6 fucking bedroom and leave me alone.
 7
Blah, blah, blah. Read the mothers statement. Remember she wrote a letter on my behalf stating" her daughter is a liar and has done so before. Please read her mother's testimony at preliminary inquiry where she was called by the defense not the crown as the crown deemed her as a hostile witness because she wouldn't go along with them.
 8 Q And then what happened?
 9 A I was still in my bedroom, so I don’t know what happened. And then when the cops 
10 showed up, my mom let -- she let them in. And. . . 
11
 12 Q Did you talk to a police officer? 
13 A Yes. 
14
 15 Q Do you know who that police officer is? 
16 A Constable Folk.
So this is a pretty quick exchange no? A sexual assault is alleged to of occurred, mom comes home, police are called immediately, police arrive, i'm cuffed and taken away. Yet the DNA from myself and her say NO!
 17
 18 Q Where did you talk to him?
 19 A I came out of my bedroom and my mother came and got me and told me to come sit 
20 on the couch, so I sat on the couch and Joseph was downstairs. And before I had to
 21 give my statement, I think they arrested Joseph. And when I had to give him a 
22 statement of what happened, I was sitting in the living room, and my mom was telling
 23 me, Angel, just try and talk. She’s, like, the police are here to help you. They’re not
 24 here to hurt you. You have to tell them.
 25
 26 Q Were you still talking to that same police officer, or were you still with that same
 27 police officer?
 28 A Yes. He was in front of me, and he was trying -- he was telling me the same thing, 
29 too. He was, like, just try and calm down and relax, breathe, and tell me what 
30 happened, please. I need to know, he’s like, so that we can -- so that we know what
 31 we can do to help you. And I was crying and it took some time, and I was shaking on
 32 the couch
. 33
 34 Q Ms. Roberts, I’m not going to ask you what you said to a police officer, but what 
35 happened after you talked to a police officer? 
36 A Then he left, and I had to go -- I don’t know what happened -- oh, yeah. They had 
37 Joseph in the back of the cruiser, and then they took him to -- back to the 
38 dispatchment (sic), and I don’t know what happened. And then I had to go to the
 39 dispatchment, too, and give a statement. First, I had to go to the hospital, and I tried 
40 telling him that there might be some evidence on Joseph’s nails because he had his
 41 fingers inside me.
Actually, if you read her mother's statement she says her daughter states "don't let them do DNA"
157
 1 
2 Q What do you mean by he had his fingers inside you?
 3 A He had them in my -- my vagina. 
5 Q You have described some of the other events. When did he have his fingers in your
 6 vagina? 
7 A At the same time he was playing with my breasts with his tongue and licking them
 8 and. . .
SEE DNA REPORT
 9
 10 Q Do you still consider Joseph your dad? 
11 A That’s a very funny question. It makes me want to laugh. No, he is not.
What could possibly be "funny" or make her "want to laugh" in talking about any of this kind of things? The child is psychotic. This bizarre answer is proof of that.
 12
 13 Q Ms. Roberts, those are all the questions that I am going to ask you, but there is
 14 another lawyer here who is going to ask you some questions. Please answer those. 
15 A I will. 
16
 17 THE COURT: Ms. Hayes.
 18
 19 MS. HAYES: Sir, I’m looking at the hour, and I don’t 
20 anticipate being particularly brief with this witness. In light of that, perhaps we should
 21 take the lunch break.
 22
 23 THE COURT: I think that’s appropriate.
 24
 25 MS. HAYES: Thank you, Sir.
 26 
27 THE COURT: So, ladies and gentlemen, we’ll break now for 
28 lunch and intend to resume the trial at 2:00 in the afternoon. Thank you. 
29
 30 (JURY RETIRES)
 31
 32 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Roberts, we’re going to adjourn 
33 until 2:00 this afternoon.
 34
 35 A Okay. 
36
 37 THE COURT: You need to come back.
 38
 39 A I will. 
40
 41 THE COURT: Come back at at least a quarter to two.
 158 
1
 2 A Quarter to two. Okay.
 3
 4 THE COURT: Madam Clerk, where does Ms. Roberts check
 5 in? 
6
 7 THE COURT CLERK: That’s -- 
8
 9 THE COURT: Just here?
 10 
11 THE COURT CLERK: Yes.
 12
 13 THE COURT: Does she just check in in the courtroom or 
14 where?
 15
 16 THE COURT CLERK: No. No, she can stay in the hallway. I’ll -- I’ll 
17 go and get her.
 18 
19 THE COURT: Okay. So please -- 
20
 21 THE COURT CLERK: Stay here, please. 
22
 23 THE COURT: So please make sure you’re back here by a 
24 quarter to two. 
25
 26 A Yes.
 27
 28 THE COURT: All right. Don’t speak with anyone about your
 29 evidence. All right?
 30
 31 A No, I won’t.
 32
 33 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
 34
 35 Counsel, anything other -- anything else?
 36
 37 MS. JOYCE: No. Thank you, sir.
 38
 39 MS. HAYES: Nothing, Sir
. 40
 41 THE COURT: All right. We’re adjourned until 2:00. Thank 
159
 1 you.
 2
 3
 4 PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED UNTIL 2:00 PM 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 160 1 Certificate of Transcript 2 3 I, Cindy Teruya, certify that the foregoing pages are a complete and accurate transcript of 4 the proceedings, taken down by me in shorthand and recorded by a sound-recording 5 machine and transcribed from my shorthand notes to the best of my skill and ability. 6 7 8 Digitally Certified: 2014-01-09 23:38:46 9 Cindy Teruya, CSR(A) 10 Order No. 43196-13-3 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 Pages: 56 36 Lines: 2347 37 Characters: 96066 38 39 File Locator: 6f78fee479c111e3ab300017a4770810 40 Digital Fingerprint: 9a54dca8a11fd7478cfe248c45dfac94028d0e9f02253595e5bab631bbfc87e1 41
 161
 1 Proceedings taken in the Court of Queen’s Bench of Alberta, Law Courts, Edmonton, Alberta 2 3 October 8, 2013 Afternoon Session 4 5 The Honourable Court of Queen’s Bench 6 Mr. Justice Michalyshyn of Alberta 7 8 S.L. Joyce For the Crown 9 T.E. Hayes For the Accused 10 C. Duggan Court Clerk 11 N. Varevac Court Clerk 12 C. Teruya, CSR(A), RPR Official Court Reporter 13 14 15 Discussion 16 17
 THE COURT: Thank you. Please be seated. 
18
 So during this time I tried to be as normal as possible and went to the cafeteria.I was alone and I nearly died when I looked up in line and directly next to me is my accuser and mother!. There was no exchange of words but a glance. Everyone paid for their food and continued to the tables. Her mother and her ended up seating to the table next to mine! yes they could have chosen to sit anywhere but they chose by me. I said nothing and forced myself to eat. I looked up and the 4 RCMP has positioned themselves at another table opposite of me. I couldn't believe it and cursed my lawyer for leaving me like this. I looked for as camera but seen none and silently hoped the area was under surveillance if there was any further accusations. I have no idea how I got through that. Shortly into lunch her Mother stomped off leaving my accuser behind and I seen my accuser then attempt to talk to the crowns lawyer. I remained until they all left as my legs were shaking. I was just completely dumbfounded that in trial she was behind a wall to testify, now she sits next to me...how are people not getting this?
 19 THE COURT CLERK: Would you like me to bring the witness in, sir?
 20
 21 THE COURT: Yes, please
. 22
 23 Ready to go?
 24
 25 MS. JOYCE: We are, Sir. I do just wish to advise, and I
 26 haven’t spoken to my friend about this, Ms. Roberts was in the same cafeteria as I was at
 27 lunch. She did approach me while I was in line and did say something to me. I did not
 28 respond to her and did not engage with her. And I -- I don’t feel that it was an
 29 inappropriate -- inappropriate interaction, but I did wish to advise it to the Court and
 30 advise to my friend that it did occur.
The crown acknowledges her attempting to speak with her.
 31
 32 THE COURT: Okay. Any -- at this moment anything rising
 33 from that, Ms. Hayes? 
34
 35 MS. HAYES: I suspect that if my friend thought something
 36 was material in terms of what was said to her, she would disclose that to me, so in light
 37 of the fact she’s not said anything, I’m satisfied that it’s okay.
 38
 39 THE COURT: I have no doubt. Something just occurred to 
40 me, though, that I do wish to address with counsel, and I wish to do so in the absence of
 41 the witness. And so, Madam Clerk, thank you very much. 
162 
1
 2 THE COURT CLERK: We’ll wait in the back, Sir
. 3
 4 THE COURT: Thank you. I don’t think it will take very long. 
5
The judge now addresses her earlier escape from a secured witness room at the start of trial, remember door number 2? This the jury doesn't know about.
 6 I might have said something earlier. We know that apropos my earlier remarks before the 
7 witness appeared in the foyer, I think of Courtroom 411, which is where we are, I was
 8 surprised by that because I had the impression that she was in the back in a room, and I
 9 frankly had thought it was a locked room, but apparently not. In any event, and I’m not 
10 sure how she got out from the secure area into the public area, and what that made me 
11 think or worry about is whether she spoke with anyone, and in particular, any other
 12 witnesses who -- and in particular perhaps her mother, who may have been outside the
 13 courtroom waiting to be called to give evidence. So that’s on my mind. It may have 
14 already occurred to either one or both of you. What I don’t know is how to deal with it, 
15 and it’s perhaps something that could come up in cross. That’s your call, Ms. Hayes. Or
 16 it’s perhaps something that I could deal with directly with the witness. I’m just not sure,
 17 frankly, but I wanted to make sure that you know what’s on my mind in terms of -- in my
 18 role as trying to ensure trial fairness. 
19
 20 So whether or not you’ve thought about that, any thoughts now about how we might 
21 ensure -- if you think it’s a concern at all, how we might ensure that this complainant
 22 didn’t or wasn’t influenced in the evidence she is now giving by having any interaction
 23 with anyone in the public while she was in the midst of examination-in-chief?
 24
 25 MS. JOYCE: I think the Court should canvass it with her,
 26 and then Ms. Hayes’ cross-examination may be informed by anything the Court -- that she
 27 says to the Court when you canvass it with her, just whether or not she saw anyone in
 28 that period -- intervening period of time. I think it would be fair to Ms. Hayes for her to
 29 have that answer before she begins her cross-examination of the accused (sic).
 30
 31 THE COURT: What do you say?
 32
 33 MS. HAYES: I’m in agreement with my friend on that point.
 34
 35 THE COURT: Okay. It make sense to me, too. Do you
 36 happen to know, Ms. Joyce, if Samantha Roberts is in the courthouse waiting?
 37
 38 MS. JOYCE: I believe she’s in the courthouse right now, 
39 Sir. I can advise that when I went to first get Angel Roberts, Samantha Roberts was not
 40 there. That was actually mentioned to me by Angel Roberts was her mother was not
 41 there, and I indicated we had to begin in any event. So she wasn’t there when Angel first 
163
 1 came into the courtroom to testify. I don’t have information if she re-attended before -- 
2 before Ms. Roberts went outside herself. 
4 THE COURT: All right. Fair enough. So in keeping with
 5 what you have suggested to me, I would propose then before the jury presents itself --
 6
 7 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 8
 9 THE COURT: -- if you agree -- or should I do this with the 
10 jury present? 
11 
12 MS. HAYES: Perhaps in the absence of the jury, and then we
 13 can go from there, Sir. The one thing, and perhaps my friend can advise, is I did notice 
14 seeing Ms. Roberts in the hallways and whatnot over the lunch break. She was with
 15 another woman. I don’t know what her mom looks like, and I don’t know if she was 
16 with her mom in the cafeteria, and perhaps that’s something that my friend can --
 17 
18 MS. JOYCE: That --
 19 
20 MS. HAYES: -- speak to.
 21
 22 MS. JOYCE: Yes. That was Samantha Roberts that she was 
23 with in the cafeteria and maybe the other time that you did see her. It was after the 
24 caution by Your Honour --
The caution was for her not to talk to other witnesses during break, her mother was a witness.
 25
 26 THE COURT: Right.
 27
 28 MS. JOYCE: -- My Lord not to talk about your evidence.
 29
 30 THE COURT: There is only so much a person can do. And of 
31 course it would be -- you would be perfectly at liberty to examine her whether during the
 32 lunch hour she acted in violation of my warning that she not speak with anyone about her
 33 evidence. My concern is more before I had a chance to give her a caution that she not 
34 leave the courtroom and then talk to anyone, there is this lingering possibility that that 
35 might happen that we want to put -- want to deal with. 
36 
37 So I propose to ask her before the jury comes back if when -- while she moved from the
 38 secure area to the public area and then back again did she have any dealings with any --
 39 either her mother -- well, her mother. I have less concern about Constable Folk in
 40 having -- him having any dealings with her, but certainly I want to at least give her a
 41 chance to respond to the question about whether she had anything to do with her mom.
 164
 1 Fair enough?
 2
 3 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 4
 5 THE COURT: Okay. Thanks. Madam Clerk, if you could
 6 invite your colleague in and the witness.
 7
 8 Thank you, Madam Clerk.
 9
 10 THE COURT CLERK: She’s ready, Sir.
 11
 12 ANGEL ROBERTS, Previously Sworn, Questioned by the Court 
13 
14 THE COURT: I just need a moment. 
15 
16 Q THE COURT: Ms. Roberts?
 17 A Yes.
 18
 19 Q One question for you --
 20 A Yeah.
 21
 22 Q -- before we bring the jury back. Before you came back into the courtroom this 
23 morning to continue giving your evidence, I note that you moved from a room in the
 24 secure area of the courthouse, in other words, the room that you have been coming in
 25 from -- the hallway you have been coming in from, you managed to get from there out 
26 back into the public area of the courthouse.
 27 A What do you mean? 
28
 29 Q So my understanding is that you moved from the room that you -- where you had been
 30 reviewing your statement? You recall being placed in a room and reviewing your
 31 statement during a break?
 32 A I didn’t leave the room. I asked for someone to bring me my purse. 
33
 34 THE COURT CLERK: But then the second time -- 
35 
36 THE COURT: Yes. 
37
 38 THE COURT CLERK: -- Ms. Roberts, you came out here before I
 39 came to get you. 
40 
41 A Yeah, because I was done reading my statement. 
165 
1
 2 Q THE COURT: Okay. So just bear with me for a moment. So 
3 you did leave the room and you went back to the outside part of the courthouse in a --
 4 what I’m calling the public area just outside this courtroom, correct?
 5 A Yes.
 6 
7 Q Okay. Now, when you did that, and before Madam Clerk came to get you again, did
 8 you have any dealings at all with your mother, Samantha Roberts?
 9 A No. 
10
 11 Q Okay. Did you see her in the public area of the courthouse at that time? 
12 A No.
And thats it! broke the rules, made it her way and there is no reprimand! The judge even asks her directly if she left and she states "A I didn’t leave the room. I asked for someone to bring me my purse. ". And then she skirts and then states she went to get her purse. Unreal! and they just accept her answer, not push the issue.
 13
 14 THE COURT: All right. Anything further, Counsel? 
15
 16 MS. HAYES: Nothing, Sir. 
17 
18 MS. JOYCE: No, thank you.
 19 
20 THE COURT: Thank you. Those are my only questions.
 21 Thank you very much. 
22
 23 Madam Clerk, at your convenience.
 24
 25 THE COURT CLERK: Certainly, Sir.
 26
 27 (JURY ENTERS)
 28 
29 THE COURT: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be 
30 seated.
 31
 32 Do counsel acknowledge the jury is present? 
33
 34 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 35 
36 MS. HAYES: Yes, Sir. 
37
 38 MS. JOYCE: Yes, My Lord
. 39
 40 THE COURT: Thank you.
 41
 166 
1 Ms. Hayes Cross-examines the Witness 
2
 3 Q MS. HAYES: Ms. Roberts, before in your
 4 examination-in-chief, you had indicated that you had -- or, sorry, that Mr. Harms had 
5 sort of an up-and-down personality, correct?
 6 A Yes.
 7
 8 Q That’s probably a good way to describe the relationship in general that you had with 
9 Mr. Harms, right? It was sort of up and down?
 10 A Yes, it was.
 11
 12 Q Because you two, particularly in perhaps, say, the last two years leading up to the 
13 event that brings you to court, in those two years you had been fighting an awful lot, 
14 hey?
 15 A Yes, we have been. 
16
 17 Q And you had been fighting about a variety of things?
 18 A Yes.
 19
 20 Q You were fighting --
 21 A I’ll give you some examples. School, not doing chores, and those were the two I 
22 can -- those are the two main ones that we mainly fought about. I was okay with
 23 dealing with it when he was sober, but when he would get drunk, he took things to a
 24 different level and -- 
25
Here again she just takes control, throw out some wrong about me yet steering away from directly answering the question.
 26 Q So you have given us --
 27 A -- punched me --
Once again
 28
 29 Q So you have given us some examples. School?
 30 A Yeah.
 31
 32 Q And the problem with school is that you weren’t going, right? You were cutting class 
33 and missing classes, and that was a problem? 
34 A Yes, it was because -- 
35
 36 Q Because he wanted you to go to class?
 37 A Yes, he did.
 38
 39 Q And then you --
 40 A But I was skipping school because I was finding it difficult dealing with a stepfather
 41 who wouldn’t admit to nobody that he was an alcoholic, so I tried telling my teachers, 
167
 1 and many people looked at me like I was screwed in the head. 
Once again
2
 3 Q So there was some issues at school, not going to school. There was issues at home not 
4 doing chores, correct? 
5 A Yes
. 6
 7 Q Okay. The other thing that you would have fights about is some of the people you 
8 hung around, hey? 
9 A Yes, but that does not necessarily mean that they’re going to rub off on me, for 
10 instance.
A simple yes will do
 11
 12 Q One of the things -- 
13 A I have made mistakes just like everybody else. Everyone is human, so. . .
Just controls the questioning and keeps cutting my attorney off.
 14
 15 Q One of the things that Mr. Harms didn’t like is that you were hanging out with people 
16 what that were older than you, correct?
 17 A Yes. 
18
 19 Q And so there was a couple of those people, there was Daylin (phonetic) --
 20 A Yes.
 21
 22 Q -- a friend of your mom’s?
 23 A Yes. 
24
 25 Q Yeah. And so he thought she was too old for you and would be frustrated when you
 26 would hang out with her?
 27 A Yes.
 28 
29 Q And then there was another boy, Jason Kramer, correct?
 30 A Yes.
 31 
32 Q Okay. And Jason was 21 when you were 15, right?
 33 A Correct.
 34
 35 Q And he lived next door to you?
 36 A Correct.
 37
 38 Q And your -- or, sorry, and Mr. Harms didn’t like you hanging around with
 39 Mr. Kramer?
 40 A No.
 41 
168
 1 Q He thought it was an inappropriate relationship? 
2 A Yeah, but I was able to relate with him because he is living in the same situation that 
3 I’m living in, very similar, but, you know, except his family publicly shows that
 4 they’re drinking alcohol, that they are drunk; whereas, Joseph, to the regular person --
 5 regular people would not say I’m drinking. I’m an alcoholic. But, no, would rather lie 
6 about it, sweet-talk people. 
Just answer the question without further accusations.
7
 8 Q But you would agree with me that was something that you guys fought about
 9 sometimes?
 10 A Yes.
 11
 12 Q Okay. 
13 A I was living in an abusive household like Jason. Jason’s parents were alcoholics, too.
 14 Joseph is an alcoholic.
See what I mean?
15 
16 Q So when you testified at the preliminary inquiry and said that you did not fight about
 17 friends or boyfriends --
 18 A He wasn’t my boyfriend.
 19
 20 Q -- you were mistaken. Okay. So when you said that you did not fight about friends,
 21 you were mistaken in your testimony at the preliminary inquiry? 
22 A Can you explain that again, please? 
23 
24 Q Okay. So you have testified before today, right, in other hearings about these matters?
 25 A Yes, but I wasn’t dating him. 
26
 27 Q Okay. 
28 A He just didn’t like the fact that I wanted to date.
 29
 30 Q No, and that’s fair --
 31 A And I’m not necessarily meaning an older person. I was -- for a fact, Joseph knows
 32 this, too, that I was wanting to date someone by the name of Nicolas Reid, not Jason
 33 Kramer. And Nicolas went to school with me. He was a nice boy -- is a nice boy. 
34
 35 Q Okay. Well, why don’t -- why don’t we just focus on the question I’m asking you. 
36 Okay? Let’s start with you have testified before at previous hearings about these 
37 matters, correct? 
38 A Yes. 
39
 40 Q Okay. And -- 
41 A But I was not dating Jason Kramer. 
169
 1
 2 Q Okay. But that was my question, so I -- I listen when you were asking a question, so
 3 when I ask you a question, you listen to me, too. Okay?
I needn't add
 4 A Okay.
 5
 6 Q Okay. So you have testified on two previous occasions about these instances? 
7 A M-hm.
 8
 9 Q And one of those occasions was in June of 2012? Does that sound about right in
 10 terms of dates? 
11 A June? 
12
 13 Q When you first testified at the preliminary inquiry when you were appearing in
 14 Athabasca, that was in June of 2012? 
15 A Yes.
 16
 17 Q Okay. And then the second time when you came back for another day of testimony, 
18 that was in December of 2012; does that sound about right? 
19 A I don’t remember.
When confronted this is her preferable answer.
 20
 21 Q Okay. Was there snow on the ground the last time you testified?
 22 A Yes, there was. 
23
 24 Q Okay. So you would agree with me it was sometime in the winter? 
25 A Yes. 
26 
27 Q Okay. So when you were at those hearings, you were cross-examined by another 
28 lawyer; that’s correct?
 29 A Correct.
Really, She has to break it down to her that there was snow on the ground for her to remember? She isn't retarded but she is highly manipulative and confrontational, stubborn.
 30 
31 Q And one of the questions she asked you was whether or not you had disagreements
 32 with Mr. Harms about friends or boyfriends, correct?
 33 A Correct.
 34 
35 Q And you answered to her, no, that wasn’t something you fought about?
 36 A Well, he didn’t regularly bring it up. It wasn’t on a regular basis day-to-day thing, so
 37 I thought we were -- we were talking about day-to-day things that I went through, 
38 so. . .
So just explain it away and change previous testimony right.
 39 
40 Q But certainly today you’re prepared to concede that that was something that you used 
41 to fight about is friends, who you hung around with? 
170
 1 A Yes
. 2
 3 Q And you were having a lot of issues at the time. There was problems at school.
 4 Mr. Harms would have to go to school quite regularly to talk to your principal or to 
5 talk to teachers because you were having a pretty hard time there? 
6 A Well, if I’m not raised in a proper environment and there is alcohol available all the 
7 time, then how am I supposed to act, like a fucking perfect kid?
When in doubt, skirt the question, throw in an accusation of some nature coupled with some verbal diarrhea.
 8
 9 Q Okay. So -- 
10 A It wasn’t easy -- 
11
 12 Q -- to answer my -- 
13 A -- living with him.
 14
 15 Q To answer my question -- 
16 A Yes, we did.
Controlling again and simply not answering
 17
 18 Q -- you were having problems at school?
 19 A We did. 
20
 21 Q Okay. Now, when you were at Home Hardware with Mr. Harms and your mom at the 
22 first part of the day when you were picking up some supplies, I think you had said --
Just cuts my lawyer off again
 23 A My mother was working, so. . . 
24
 25 Q Okay. So when you were picking up some supplies, I think you had said it was for
 26 some lawn -- like, a lawn patio and some patio furniture and stuff like that? 
27 A And planting, yes.
 28
 29 Q Yeah. So when you guys were there the first time, you had some interactions, I 
30 suppose, with Daylin? 
31 A Yes, I did.
 32
 33 Q Okay. And you were sitting in her car and -- and when your dad -- or, sorry, when 
34 Mr. Harms observed you in the car? 
35 A Yes, he did. That was the same day.
 36
 37 Q And this started a little bit of a disagreement between you and him at the store?
 38 A Yes. 
39
 40 Q Okay. So that sort of set the tone for the day?
 41 A M-hm. 
171
 1 
2 Q And then from there you guys took a cab back to your place with some of the
 3 supplies?
 4 A Correct
Although she previously denied this under oath like I said earlier. Also in her original statement she said " he took a cab and I walked"
. 5
 6 Q Okay. And when you got there, one of the things that Mr. Harms wanted you to do
 7 was help him with some yard work. That’s fair?
 8 A Yes, correct. 
10 Q Okay. And one of the things he asked you to do was lift a bag of seed for him and 
11 put it into a particular machine he was working with?
 12 A That wasn’t the same day. 
Didn't we just bring the supplies home?
13
 14 Q Okay. Do you have some recollection of having to help him with things like that? 
15 A No, actually I don’t.
Yet she said just a minute ago she had but it wasn't that day, yet it was.
 16 
17 Q Okay. So to your knowledge you were aware that Mr. Harms had a back injury,
 18
 correct?
 19 A How does this relate to what happened to me?
It has to do with the fact I couldn't possibly do what you say I did. It has to do with the fact that you went to the doctors with me. It has to do with people seeing me NOT drunk. It has to do with how you conveniently left this all out of your rendition of the day's events from waking up. Yet if it's not about HER, then the attitude shows and the focus gets shifted from that which is actual facts to story telling time and the many different variations.
 20
 21 Q I’m just going to ask you some questions. Okay? And then you’re going to answer 
22 the questions. So to your knowledge he had a back injury, correct? 
23 A Why do I have to answer this question?
Why? because of what I previously stated and you know"WHY".
 24
 25 Q Because I’m asking you the question, and unfortunately while some of these things are 
26 not fun to talk about -- 
27 A Yeah -- 
28
 29 Q -- you have to answer them.
 30 A -- I guess, correct. And his name is actually Dr. Deutscher --
She even gets his name right
 31
 32 Q Pardon me?
 33 A -- to be correct.
 34
 35 Q Okay. 
36 A Dr. Deutscher is his name, I’m just saying
. 37
 38 Q So because of his back injury, sometimes Mr. Harms couldn’t do things around the 
39 house, correct?
 40 A No, that’s not correct. Joseph was the type of person to lift things, heavy, whether or
 41 not he’s hurt. So he’s that kind of a person who even if he was hurt, he still did -- 
172
 1 still went to work. He was that kind of a person.
 2
 3 Q So he never imposed upon you to ask you to do some stuff for him and bother you --
 4 A No.
 5
 6 Q -- with things like lifting? 
7 A Not at all.
 8
 9 Q So ultimately when you get into a fight with Joseph back at the residence, you decide
 10 you’re going to go back to see your mom at work, correct?
 11 A Yes.
 12
 13 Q Now, one of the reasons that you were staying either at work or at home is that your 
14 mom and Mr. Harms didn’t like you out on your own for big -- or for long periods of 
15 time, correct? 
16 A Yes. 
17
 18 Q Because you got into trouble when you were out on your own? 
19 A Yes, I did.
 20
 21 Q So that was essentially why you had the two options -- you’re either at home or you’re
22 at her work?
 23 A Yes, correct.
 24
 25 Q And one of the things that became a problem was --
 26 A What became a problem for me, to be honest, is staying around someone who is
 27 drinking and getting mad at me and frustrated; whereas my mom dealt with things in 
28 a -- not in a delicate way at all, she did raise her voice, and she went about things in a 
29 proper manner; whereas Joseph had no mannerism at all --
More of not answering the question but throw out some random accusations. These are the types of things that shouldn't be entertained in a court of law but they give her allowance and it is utter nonsense.
30 
31 Q All right. And --
 32 A -- in dealing with me.
 33
 34 Q And certainly I’m not disagreeing with you. It sounds like it was tense at your house?
 35 A It was.
 36
 37 Q Okay. No one is disagreeing about that. So that’s why you end up leaving, going to
 38 work with your mom, and Joseph wants you to come home, correct?
 39 A Yes.
 40
 41 Q And one of the things he wants you to do is chores and stuff around the house?
 173
 1 A M-hm.
 2
 3 Q He wanted you doing something productive with your time?
 4 A Yes.
 5
 6 Q Because when you were at work with your mom, you would usually just sit in the
 7 break room and read the newspaper?
 8 A Correct.
 9
 10 Q So ultimately when you get called back to the residence, you indicate that this time
 11 instead of taking a cab you walk when you -- 
12 A Correct.
 13
 14 Q -- return home after leaving a second time?
 15 A Yes. 
16 
17 Q And you had indicated it was raining? 
18 A Correct. 
19 
20 Q And it was raining pretty hard, correct?
 21 A M-hm.
 22
 23 Q And at preliminary inquiry you testified that it actually rained so hard that you were
 24 soaked through to all of your clothes when you were walking home. 
25 A Correct.
 26
 27 Q Right. Is this something you have a memory of of how hard it rained? 
28 A Kind of, yeah. 
29
She knows she is caught on a key issue hence "kind of yeah"
 30 Q Yeah?
 31 A Yeah
. 32 
33 Q Certainly you testified to it raining under oath at preliminary inquiry? 
34 A M-hm. 
35
 36 Q And you have testified to that today?
 37 A M-hm.
 38
 39 Q Are you aware that people can keep track of things like what the weather is like on 
40 any given day?
 41 A Yeah.
 174
 1
 2 Q And so people get paid to do that as a living, they keep track of what the weather 
3 looks like and they record it places? 
4 A Correct. 
5
 6 Q And some of the places they record it are places like on the internet so everyone can
 7 see what the weather was like on a particular day?
 8 A Correct.
 9
 10 Q And so what I’m going to do, Ms. Roberts, is I’m going to provide something to 
11 Madam Clerk that I’m going to get her to hand to you.
 12 A Okay.
 13
 14 Q I have brought another copy for my friend as well. So just so that we’re sure we’re 
15 working off the same document here, at the top of this document that I gave you it 
16 says, Daily data report for May 2011? 
17 A M-hm. 
18
 19 Q M-hm. And then on the left -- far left-hand side, you can see things like what day of
 20 the week it was?
 21 A Correct. 
22
 23 Q And then eight columns in, you can see one that says total precipitation --
 24 A Correct.
 25
 26 Q -- across the top.
 27 A Yes. 
28
 29 Q Okay. And so on May 21st, can you tell me how much precipitation there was? 
30 A It wasn’t raining. 
31
 32 Q Pardon me?
 33 A It wasn’t raining.
 34
 35 Q There wasn’t any? 
36 A No
. 37
 38 Q Does that change your memory with respect to whether or not it was raining that day?
 39 A Yes.
 40
 41 Q So now you’re changing -- are you going to change your testimony and say it wasn’t
 175
 1 raining?
 2 A Nope
. 3 
4 Q You maintain that it was raining? 
5 A M-hm.
 6
 7 Q Okay.
 8
 9 THE COURT: Ms. Hayes, I apologize for interrupting, but
 10 some of the answers you’re getting are m-hm. Could I ask that you make sure that you
 11 elicit -- 
12 
13 MS. HAYES: Certainly.
 14 
15 THE COURT: -- a yes or a no or a maybe from the witness. 
16
 17 MS. HAYES: Okay.
 18 
19 THE COURT: Just for the record.
 20
 21 Q MS. HAYES: And so -- so we can be clear on that, I think
 22 the last question I had asked you was that you’re maintaining that it was raining, and
 23 you said m-hm, and I took that to mean yes, but I stand to be corrected. 
24 A Correct.
 25 
26 Q Okay. So you’re saying, yes, it rained?
 27 A No, it wasn’t raining.
 28
Yes, no Yes...are you kidding me? she is trying to reconcile that which she is caught in lying.
 29 Q No -- 
30 A But it was a difference -- it was a different day that we also had a fight. Sorry if I
 31 was flashing back to when I had horrible incidents with Joseph. 
32
When in doubt, change testimony and throw out yet another accusation.
 33 Q So you are saying it wasn’t raining?
 34 A Correct. 
35
 36 Q Okay. So when you had testified to that before, you must have been mistaken?
 37 A Yes.
 38
How can someone be mistaken when her statement was taken within the hour?
 39 Q Okay. Now, when you arrived home at the residence, the door was unlocked, which
 40 you said was unusual?
 41 A Yes.
 176
 1
 2 Q Yeah. Because you have said that Mr. Harms was -- you used the term OCD, and 
3 took that to mean you were referring to obsessive-compulsive about locking the door?
 4 A Yes.
 5 
6 THE COURT: Perhaps, Madam Clerk --
 7
 8 MS. HAYES: Perhaps we can -- 
10 THE COURT: Madam Clerk, the mike came off. 
11
 12 A I have it.
 13
 14 THE COURT: Thank you.
 15 
16 Q MS. HAYES: And today you have testified that upon going
 17 into the house you had a concern about the door being unlocked. You locked the
 18 door, correct? 
19 A Correct. 
20
 21 Q And this ultimately started a fight between you and Joseph, or Mr. Harms, when he
 22 got home, correct?
 23 A Yes.
 24
 25 Q And you said this fight took place in the kitchen, correct?
 26 A Kitchen, living room. 
27
 28 Q Kitchen, living room area?
 29 A M-hm.
 30 
31 Q And this was just a lot of yelling?
 32 A Yes. 
33
 34 Q Okay. You would agree with me that this is the first time you have ever testified
 35 about that fight in the kitchen?
 36 A Correct.
37
Seriously it changes again?
 38 Q Okay. Because before that, you testified that when you got home in the house you
 39 didn’t see Joseph at all. Fair?
 40 A He wasn’t there at all, but when he got home.
 41
 177
 1 Q You would agree with me that the first fight that you have ever testified about happens
 2 in your bedroom?
 3 A Correct.
 4
 5 Q Okay. So prior to today, the only fight you ever talked about was something that goes
 6 on in your bedroom after he arrives home?
 7 A It didn’t happen in the bedroom
. 8
 9 Q Okay. I appreciate that’s what you’re saying today, but what I’m saying is before
10 today --
11 A Yes. Correct.
 12
13 Q -- the only incidence you described is in your bedroom?
 14 A Correct.
 15
 16 Q Okay. And that incidence, according to your previous testimony, was essentially
 17 unexplained to you; you had no idea why he was coming into your room?
18 A I did know why. I didn’t feel like answering the past lawyer’s questions. So, yeah, I
19 started lying.
 20
 21 Q You were lying under oath last time?
 22 A Yes.
First admission of perjury under oath
 23
24 Q Okay. So you understood in the last hearing it was important to tell the truth?
 25 A Yes. I was tired, and I was hungry. What was I supposed to do.
 26
Sound Familiar? the trial started off the same.
 27 Q Okay. So when you were frustrated, you’re prepared to lie under oath?
 28 A Yes.
 29
 30 Q You mentioned today that when you’re in your bedroom, Joseph came in and grabbed
 31 you by the neck?
32 A M-hm.
 33
 34 Q I’m going to suggest to you that he never grabbed you by the neck. Is that true?
 35 A No.
 36
 37 Q When -- let’s see. So when you were testifying at the preliminary inquiry that took
 38 place on June 4th, you were asked some similar questions to the one I’m asking you
 39 right now. That’s fair?
40 A Correct.
 41
 178
 1 Q And one of the questions was they had asked you to describe to the best of what you
2 can -- the best of your ability, okay, and you responded, He had my hand -- his hand
 3 on my throat, no, kind of -- not on my throat, but gripping really hard on my chin, my
 4 jaw, and gripping me really hard, and it hurt a hell of a lot. Do you remember making
5 that statement?
 6 A Correct.
 7
 8 Q So you would agree with me you very specifically said he didn’t have your throat --
9 his hand on your throat?
10 A He did also have -- he had his hand on my throat and then he had it on my neck and
 11 then my chin.
 12
 13 Q So when the prosecutor was asking you this question, and you said -- because this
 14 was -- do you remember Mr. Mahon who asked you the questions at the preliminary
 15 inquiry?
16 A No, I don’t.
 17
She doesn't remember this?
 18 Q Okay. I can give you a copy of the transcript if you want to have a copy of it in your
 19 hand. Would that assist you?
20 A No.
21
Why not? These are your words and they aren't going away.
 22 Q Okay. So you recall making that statement, though, to Mr. Mahon?
 23 A Yes.
 24
 25 Q Yeah. So, again, this is a situation where your evidence today is different than it was
 26 previously.
 27 A Nope.
 28
Unreal that no one called an end to this much sooner, say years earlier.!
 29 Q You would agree with me that memories generally don’t get better with time?
 30 A I disagree.
 31
32 Q You think memories get better over time?
 33 A M-hm.
 34
35 THE COURT: Is that a yes or a no?
 36
 37 A Yes.
 38
39 Q MS. HAYES: It appears she said -- you said yes?
 40 A Yes.
 41
179
No reasonable person telling any truth could say this
 1 Q Okay. So you don’t think that when something is fresher in your mind when it’s
2 closer to the incident that your memory would be better?
 3 A No.
 4
5 Q Now, you have also described an incident where when he has you by the neck he also
 6 has the fist to your temple?
 7 A Correct.
 8
 9 Q And you would agree with me that based on what I have read you from your
10 testimony at the preliminary inquiry that wasn’t something you said to Mr. Mahon
 11 when he asked you?
 12 A I’m fully remembering what happened to me, and he also did that.
13
 14 Q But these are memories that you have had since that time?
15 A Correct.
16
17 Q Okay. So they’re things that you have recalled later?
 18 A Yes.
 19
 20 Q Okay. Now, you have described being on the fetal position on the floor under your
 21 window?
 22 A Correct.
 23
 24 Q And at some point you indicated that -- well, actually I just want to clarify. How do
 25 you end up from the floor onto the bed?
 26 A Because Joseph was that kind of a person where -- where when he got mad at me --
 27 there is many situations that I can recall where we got into a fight and an hour later I
 28 hear I’m -- I’m sorry, and I’m getting hugged. So, yeah, I ended up on the bed, and
29 he was -- he grabbed me. He was squeezing me at first, and then he loosened his
 30 hands and --
31
32 Q Okay. I want to take you back a little bit.
 33 A -- I was on my bed.
34
 35 Q You got a little farther ahead of me than I was. So I’m just asking how you get from
36 the floor to the bed?
37 A Because he picked me up.
 38
 39 Q Okay. And so how does he pick you up?
 40 A I was holding my -- behind my legs, and he -- like this, and I was holding it tightly,
 41 and then he grabbed right there and he grabbed my back and then picked me up. And
 180
 1 I was on my bed, and he was holding me and hugging me and saying I’m sorry
. 2
 3 Q So you have -- I just want to make sure that the record demonstrates what you have
4 just shown us. You had your hands under the backs of your knees?
 5 A Yes.
 6
7 Q Okay. And so to describe that, it was more like a scooping motion? That’s what he
 8 did? He picked you up in, like, sort of a scoop?
 9 A Yes.
10
 11 Q And then placed you on the bed?
 12 A Not placed me on the bed. He was --
 13
 14 Q He, sorry?
 15 A After that, he was, like -- when he scooped me up --
 16
 17 Q Okay.
 18 A -- it was kind of like a hug at the same time.
 19
 20 Q Okay. And it’s once you’re on the bed that things become uncomfortable for you?
21 A Correct.
 22
 23 Q Okay. And so as part of this he made you take off your shirt, correct?
 24 A Correct.
 25
 26 Q And the other thing that you have indicated is that -- today, is that he took off your
 27 bra?
 28 A Correct.
 29
30 Q And you made a comment I wanted you to explain to me. You said, And he didn’t
31 take it off fast either. What does that mean?
 32 A It means he took off my bra slow. 33 34 Q Sorry? 35 A It means he took off my bra slow.
 36
37 Q Okay.
 38 A Once it was unclasped, he slowly took -- pulled the straps down.
39
 40 Q And you would agree with me this is another one of those things that you’re just
 41 remembering today, right?
181
 1 A Correct
. 2
 3 Q Because before that your evidence was that you had taken off your bra yourself. Fair?
 4 A Fair.
 5
 6 Q Yeah. So this is another one of those things that has just come to your memory
7 today?
 8 A Correct.
 9
10 Q Do you remember what type of pants you were wearing that day?
11 A No, I don’t.
 12
13 Q So you can’t say when they were taken off how many zippers or buttons or --
 14 A No.
15
16 Q -- belts or anything he had to undo?
 17 A No.
 18
19 Q All of that is just a blur in your mind?
 20 A Yes.
 21
 22 Q No details at all?
 23 A No.
 24
 25 Q And you also can’t remember how -- whether or not your underwear and pants came
 26 off at the same time? 27
 A No.
 28
29 Q Also a bit of a blur?
 30 A Yes.
31
How is this being entertained?
 32 Q Yeah. Now, one of the things you have indicated is that you were screaming when
 33 this was going on?
 34 A I wasn’t screaming. I was crying very loud.
 35
 36 Q You don’t remember in your examination-in-chief this morning saying I was screaming
37 and screaming?
 38 A I cried and screamed at the same time.
39
40 Q So you’re -- the purpose of you making these sounds, though, is you wanted to attract
41 the attention of your neighbours; that is correct?
 182
1 A So that they would call the cops.
 2
3 Q Yeah. So you were trying to be as loud as you possibly could?
 4 A Yes.
 5
 6 Q And you’ve indicated today --
7 A I was screaming stop, if anything, and crying at the same frickin’ time.
 8
 9 Q I’m sorry, I had a hard time hearing what you just said there.
10 A I was -- I was screaming stop, and I was crying at the same time.
 11
12 Q And you indicated you were screaming so much that at some point he had to put his
 13 hand over your mouth?
14 A Correct.
15
 16 Q Now, you would agree with me that’s another one of the things on the list that just
17 came out today?
18 A Correct.
19
 20 Q Okay. And I just want to make sure we’re clear here. So there has been the two
21 times that you have testified at preliminary inquiry, but there was also a statement you
 22 made to the police, correct?
 23 A Correct.
 24
 25 Q Okay. So when we talk about these details that are just coming out today, you have
 26 had not one, but two -- not two, but three times to -- three opportunities to tell these
 27 things, right?
28 A Correct.
29
30 Q And they were not mentioned before?
 31 A Correct.
32
 33 Q And in all of those incidences you understood how important it was to be truthful?
34 A M-hm.
35
 36 Q And in all of those incidences -- sorry. That was a m-hm. So yes?
37 A Yes.
 38
39 Q Yes. And in all of those instances you understood how important it was to give as
 40 much detail as possible so that you could assist the investigators and the prosecutors
41 with their job, correct?
183
1 A Correct.
 2
 3 Q And these were details that were just missed?
4 A Yes
. 5
 6 Q Now, would it be fair to say you don’t recall what time your mother was supposed to
7 be off work that day?
 8 A I didn’t remember at the time.
 9
 10 Q Now, Ms. Roberts, you knew -- or you expected your mom to be arriving home
 11 shortly when you were in your bedroom with Mr. Harms. That’s fair?
 12 A Yes
. 13
14 Q And you thought she could be home at any minute?
15 A Yes.
 16
17 Q And while you don’t remember what time she was supposed to be home today, you
18 can’t say this was the hour she was supposed to be off --
19 A No.
 20
 21 Q -- you knew that she was coming home straight after work?
 22 A Yes.
 23
24 Q Yeah. So this morning you had some difficulty remembering some of these events,
 25 correct?
 26 A Yes.
 27
 28 Q Yeah. You told the jurors that you didn’t feel like answering the questions because
 29 you didn’t remember?
 30 A Correct.
31
 32 Q That was a lie, wasn’t it?
 33 A No, it wasn’t. I didn’t --
 34
 35 Q Well, you --
36 A -- I don’t feel like talking about this.
 37
Caught in too many unconsolable lies she just folds and attempts to refuse to answer questions.
 38 Q Well, that’s okay. So -- but when you said to the jurors that you didn’t remember,
39 that was a lie?
 40 A Yes, it was.
 41
This is like the 3rd time admitting to perjury.
 184
 1 Q Because you did remember?
 2 A Yes.
3
 4 Q And I’m going to suggest to you -- I’m going to suggest to you that the reason you
 5 said you didn’t remember was because you didn’t want to have to testify here today.
 6 That’s correct?
 7 A Yes, that is because I didn’t want to fucking see Joseph.
 8
I often wonder about this, I got the feeling my own attorney was attempting to offer her a way out, to reconcile her testimony. I couldn't help but feel as though my own lawyer had sided with her because she was female. I might very well be wrong but a question lingers here in my mind.I asked her about it during break. Her response was "how do you think it's going?" I said are you just being clever or do you think I did this", she stated we got her and that wasn't much of an answer I thought. I needed to use the bathroom so I just told her " keep on her, don't let up and don't let her off the stand, she will confess to lying". Coming up is hauntingly ironic the words I chose.
 9 MS. HAYES: Perhaps we should take a break, Sir.
 10
11 THE COURT: That would be appropriate.
 12
 13 Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We’ll take the afternoon break at this time.
14
15 (JURY RETIRES)
16
 17 THE COURT: Fifteen minutes or as you see fit.
18
19 MS. HAYES: Okay.
 20
 21 THE COURT: I’ll wait for Madam Clerk to give me a call.
 22 Thank you.
23
24 (ADJOURNMENT)
 25
 26 THE COURT: Thank you. Please be seated.
 27
28 I believe we are in a position to proceed. Madam Clerk? At your convenience. Thank
29 you.
 30
31 (JURY ENTERS)
 32
 33 THE COURT: All present?
34
 35 MS. HAYES: They are, Sir.
36
 37 THE COURT: Thank you.
38
39 Ms. Roberts, do you acknowledge you are still under oath?
 40
41 A Yes.
 185
 1
 2 THE COURT: Thank you very much.
 3
 4 Ms. Hayes.
 5
 6 I apologize. We were going to make you stand all afternoon.
 7
 8 Q MS. HAYES: Thank you, Ms. Roberts. I’m almost finished
 9 here. What we were talking about prior to taking a break was the fact that you were a
10 little reluctant to testify, and I’m going to suggest to you that this has been ongoing
 11 throughout the proceedings, correct?
12 A Correct.
13
14 Q Yes?
 15 A Correct.
16
 17 Q Okay. You knew that you were required because you were subpoenaed to attend at
 18 preliminary inquiry, correct?
 19 A Correct.
 20
 21 Q And you knew you were supposed to be there. You were supposed to appear in St.
 22 Albert?
 23 A Yes.
 24
 25 Q And on that day the Crown was there, the defence lawyer was there, Mr. Harms was
26 there, but you weren’t there, right?
 27 A Correct.
28
 29 Q And you have given various reasons as to why you weren’t there. Fair?
 30 A Correct.
 31
32 Q You told the prosecutor that the reason you didn’t come -- well, let me rephrase that.
 33 So you initially called the RCMP complaint line and say you have an appointment so
 34 you can’t be there, correct?
35 A Correct.
36
 37 Q Yeah. And when that doesn’t work, you have simply just didn’t come to court, right?
 38 A Correct.
 39
 40 Q And then when you came to court at the preliminary inquiry, you gave some evidence
 41 as to why you weren’t there, right?
186
1 A Correct.
 2
 3 Q You talked about being at a party out of town?
 4 A I was.
5
6 Q Yeah. And drinking with some friends?
 7 A Yes.
8
9 Q And ultimately everyone being too hung-over to drive you to court?
 10 A Yes
. 11
12 Q You would agree with me that you left town simply so you didn’t have to testify?
 13 A No. I didn’t know court was the next day.
 14
 15 Q You didn’t know court was the next day?
 16 A No, I didn’t.
 17
 18 Q You would agree with me you were in -- you were in court on June 4th before Judge
 19 Myers. Fair?
 20 A Yes.
21
 22 Q And --
 23 A I forgot the date. I didn’t realize that it was yes -- that it was -- the night I was
24 drinking, it was the next day. I didn’t realize that.
25
26 Q Okay. I -- well, it wasn’t the next day. Judge Myers told you on the record that you
27 were to be there--
28 A No, the day I was drinking at a party, I didn’t realize it was the next day. I even
 29 called my mother and asked her, and she said court was today. Like, when I called
30 her when I was --
31
 32 Q So it --
33 A -- drinking.
34
 35 Q -- would be a surprise to you if I told you that your mother had no idea where you
 36 were or why you weren’t at court that day?
 37 A Yes, because when I got home I called her
. 38
 39 Q Okay. I’m going to show you a document -- and I have a copy for my friend as well.
 40 Actually, I might only have --
 41
187
 1 MS. HAYES: Will you share mine? It’s just a copy of the
 2 transcript.
 3
 4 Q MS. HAYES: My friend has kindly pointed out to me that
 5 perhaps you and I just have had a bit of a miscommunication here in terms of what
6 her evidence is -- or what your evidence is. What I’m suggesting to you is that before
 7 you took off to the lake, you didn’t tell your mom where you were.
 8 A No, because I was 17.
 9
10 Q So you didn’t tell her where you were?
11 A No.
 12
13 Q Okay.
 14 A But then I called her -- once I got home, I called her from our land line and I asked
15 her where she was. And she said she was in court, and I said, oh, court was today.
16 And I didn’t know. I was uncertain which day court was.
17
 18 Q Okay. And I just want to make sure that we’re all clear about the timeline. On June
19 4th you were in Athabasca court in front of Judge Myers when he ordered you to
 20 come to the continuation date. Yes?
 21 A Correct.
 22
 23 Q And the continuation date was June 7th?
 24 A I guess.
25
 26 Q So three days later?
 27 A Yes.
 28
29 Q So despite how significant this event was to you, you forgot that you had a court date
 30 three days later?
 31 A Yes, I did.
 32
 33 Q Okay. I just want to make sure we were on the same page. I’m going to suggest to
 34 you that the reason that you have not come to court when you have been required to
 35 do so and why you have been reluctant when you were in court is because you want --
 36 you didn’t want to have to testify, correct?
 37 A Nope.
 38
 39 Q That’s not why?
 40 A No.
 41
 188
 1 Q You wanted to testify?
 2 A M-hm.
 3
No she wants to testify the way she wants to, her control, her choice of questions to answer, to have everything she says as simple truth even though its not so and proven to be. To her its not perjury or lies.
 4 Q Okay.
 5 A But now I don’t want to anymore. I totally don’t care where -- which way this goes.
 6 I really don’t.
 7
Like I said, when its put to her and she is confronted she will simply take the easy way out and lash out like you will see coming up.
 8 Q Well, if you --
 9 A As long as he’s gone and I don’t have to see his frickin’ face, I’m peachy. My day -- 10 my life has been going real great up until today. So now that I have to see that
 11 fucking cocksucker’s face, yeah, no. He can rot in hell.
 12
Wow, the soft spoken voice turns into rage again as does the verbal diarrhea.
 13 MS. HAYES: I will end my cross-examination with that, Sir.
 14 Thank you.
15
 16 THE COURT: Thank you.
 17
 18 Ms. Joyce?
19
 20 Ms. Joyce Re-examines the Witness
 21
 22 Q MS. JOYCE: Ms. Roberts, I do have a couple of questions
 23 based on what you have said to the other lawyer, Ms. Hayes. Ms. Roberts, you talked
24 today about Mr. Harms holding you by the neck and holding a fist to your head. Do
 25 you remember talking about that today?
 26 A Correct.
 27
 28 Q And Ms. Hayes asked you some questions, and you indicated that you had not talked
29 about that before, so you hadn’t talked before about the accused having his hand on
 30 your neck and a fist against your head. Is that fair? And it probably sounded
31 convoluted, but you agreed with Ms. Hayes that you had not said that to anyone
 32 before?
33 A Correct.
34
 35 Q Okay. You also agreed with Ms. Hayes that you talked --
36 A May I state a confession?
 37
38 Q If I could just finish --
 39 A I’m going to state --
 40
 41 Q -- some questions.
 189
 1 A -- my confession first. When court started, I didn’t want to put Joseph in jail because
 2 I didn’t feel like deeming somebody for doing wrong. I just was hoping he would just
3 stay away from me and my mother. Because I have known him since I was nine years
 4 old, and him and I never got along a lot, but when we did -- I never had a
 5 father-figure in my life, and I didn’t want to put him in jail because -- because he
 6 cared about me a lot.
7
This is her attempt at a confession and yet they never pressed her on this. The why, who, what and where. This from the filthy name calling just moments ago. One would think the judge would have clued in to the "confession" word and pressed that, coupled with the facts of openly admitting under oath to perjury. Yet they don't. So much for innocent until proven guilty and even his own instructions to the jury.
 8 THE COURT: Do you want to carry on with your question,
 9 Ms. Joyce.
10
 The judge is close yet allows it.
 11 Q MS. JOYCE: Ms. Roberts, I’m going to continue with the
12 question I started before your confession. And you agreed with Ms. Hayes that you
13 spoke at a preliminary inquiry in December 3rd of 2012 -- or December of 2012; is
14 that right?
 15 A Correct.
16
 17 Q Okay. I’m going to read to you from a transcript questions and answers, and I would
 18 like you to listen to them. The questions are from Ms. Boisvert, and the answers are
 19 from you.
20
 21 MS. HAYES: I -- I just want to be careful, and I -- and I have
22 an objection to register. I just want to be careful that my friend is not leading an answer
 23 out of the complainant. Certainly she is entitled to ask broad open-ended questions, but if
 24 she’s endeavouring to elicit a particular response or get her to adopt something she is
25 saying, I think that amounts to a leading question and is prohibited, even in redirect, Sir.
26
 27 THE COURT: Are you -- let’s have this discussion in the
28 absence of the jury.
 29
30 MS. HAYES: Certainly.
 31
 32 THE COURT: Thank you.
 33
34 MS. JOYCE: And the witness.
 35
 36 THE COURT: And the witness, yes. Thank you.
 37
 38 (JURY RETIRES)
 39
 40 THE ACCUSED: May I ask is it possible I step out for a wee 41 bit? Yeah, is it okay if I step out for a bit?
190
1
2 THE COURT: Thank you, Madam Clerk. If we can have the
 3 witness step out for a moment. Thank you.
4
 5 (WITNESS STANDS DOWN)
 6
7 THE COURT: Thank you.
 8
9 Submissions by Ms. Joyce (Re: Potential Re-examination)
10
Everyone is so confused, there has been four times where she was directly questioned and one original statement, things, places, timelines have altered so much, changed that no one can make sense of it anymore.
11 MS. JOYCE: And I’ll just say -- I’ll indicate right out where
12 I’m going with this. My friend cross-examined Ms. Roberts extensively about mentioning
13 things for the first time today, including saying that she mentioned for the first time that
 14 she was held by the neck and that the accused put his fist to her head, and eventually
15 Ms. Roberts conceded that this is the first time she’s told anyone about this. My
16 reference will be to a preliminary inquiry transcript with questions from Ms. Boisvert.
 17 This is at page 71 of that transcript. It’s a transcript that includes several dates of
18 proceeding, but this particularly concerns December 3rd of 2012. Questions from
19 Ms. Boisvert, who was counsel for Mr. Harms at the time.
 20
21 Q Face-to-face. Okay. Can you please describe how he was
 22 holding his arm against your neck or his hand? I’m not sure
 23 what you mean by chokehold.
 24 A Like that.
 25
 26 Q So he’s got two hands crossed over each other --
27 A No
. 28
29 Q -- your neck?
 30 A No. He had one, and it’s completely covered neck, and he had
 31 a fist to my temple, and I thought he was going to kill me.
32
 33 My reason for asking these questions is that the -- the sworn testimony of her does show
 34 that she did tell someone before. Realizing that she has conceded that she didn’t, I think
 35 that it’s proper to raise this in re-exam -- or, pardon me, in my reply. It has just been
 36 brought up in the cross-examination of Ms. Hayes. I don’t think that presenting to her her
 37 questions and answers from the preliminary inquiry is improper in this instance. I am
 38 directing her to particular testimony that she has had in the past, but I’m not going to be
39 asking her isn’t that right or anything like that. I just want to have her indicate that she
40 has said those passages before.
 41
 191
 1 Submissions by Ms. Hayes (Re: Potential Re-examination)
2
 3 MS. HAYES: Sir, in light of that, if that’s all that is
4 happening with it, I am content to have -- in terms of procedure, I think it would probably
 5 be fair to have her read it and then say this is what I said, but I -- I think I have gone
 6 where I need to go with this witness so I’m content to have my friend do it.
 7
 8 Ruling (Re: Potential Re-examination)
 9
 10 THE COURT: Yeah, I -- we may all have views of --
11 preliminary views of the -- this witness, but can’t guess what the jury is thinking. It
12 seems to me it would be a little unusual -- without giving the witness a chance to at least
 13 review the transcript in the sense of refreshing her memory, it would be a little unusual to
14 read to her her questions and answers and then ask her effectively to adopt them, which
 15 sounds -- sounds like cross-examination. Whether or not you ask her the next question,
16 which is isn’t that what you said, it -- I’m not trying to do your job for you, but I’m
17 trying to be as fair as possible. Clearly, there is some suggestion in that, what you have
 18 just read to me, read to us, that her answer to Ms. Hayes may have been inaccurate in
 19 terms of what she may have said previously. I’m sure this witness has not memorized the
 20 preliminary inquiry transcript. She should then be given an opportunity to look at her
 21 own evidence and then be asked the question.
 22
23 MS. JOYCE: Yes
. 24
25 THE COURT: Something along the lines of -- in a very
26 general non-leading question -- something to the effect that she said to Ms. Hayes that she
 27 agreed with Ms. Hayes that this was the first time she had ever said anything about a
28 hand being held to her -- a fist being held to her temple and did she give that evidence
 29 previously, or some -- something to that effect. Does that make sense?
 30
31 MS. JOYCE: Yeah.
 32
33 MS. HAYES: I think the comment might -- and I apologize. I
34 can’t remember exactly what question I asked. I knew there was a comment made about
35 the neck. And I know I had followed a line of inquiry involving her saying -- putting
36 towards a previous statement with her indicating, no, his hands were never on my neck,
 37 but I don’t know exactly what the question I put to her was. And I’m not disputing it
38 went down this line of inquiry, and I suspect my friend was in a better position to be
 39 taking notes than I was at the time.
40
 41 THE COURT: Well, and so should I have been. Let me just --
192
 1 I -- my memory is that -- just give me a moment.
2
 3 Yeah, my note is that with respect to the aspect of Mr. Harms putting his fist to her
 4 temple, she agreed that was only a more recent memory. That may not have been
 5 everything she said about it, but in the context of all the cross-examination the jury might
 6 be left with the impression that that aspect of her evidence is a lot like other aspects of
 7 her evidence where she clearly did say in answer to cross that she was only remembering
 8 certain things today. So I think you should certainly be given the opportunity to let the
 9 witness have a look at what she said at that -- on that date of preliminary inquiry and then
10 in a -- inamanner consistent with evidence-in-chief ask her if she agrees she said that or
 11 something to that effect, and the jury will then be informed of what she says about the --
 12 and I’m assuming she’ll agree that she did say that or she’ll say she doesn’t remember.
 13 Who knows what she’ll say. So that would be my direction, but I’m going to stop short
 14 of telling you what the question ought to be. Not my job.
 15
 16 MS. JOYCE: Darn.
17
18 THE COURT: Sorry, I’m going to put you on the spot.
 19
 20 MS. JOYCE: That’s all right.
 21
 22 THE COURT: Now, was there any other part of the
23 preliminary inquiry transcript, Ms. Joyce, you wanted --
24
 25 MS. JOYCE: No.
26
27 THE COURT: -- to refer to?
28
 29 MS. JOYCE: It’s specifically that, and then I will have a
30 follow-up question to her after whatever her answer may be, but I -- that will be the
 31 extent of my --
 32
 33 THE COURT: Okay.
 34
35 MS. JOYCE: -- re-examination as well.
36
 37 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you very much. Then we can
 38 ask the jury to come back in. Thank you, Madam Clerk.
39
40 Do you have another witness this afternoon, Ms. Joyce?
 41
 193
 1 MS. JOYCE: There is an officer who I anticipate to be a
2 shorter witness, and he would appreciate the ability to testify today, given that he has to
 3 fly out tomorrow on the RCMP plane. But I think I will wait until we see what time we
 4 are actually done with Ms. Hayes --
5
 6 THE COURT: Sure --
 7
 8 MS. JOYCE: -- or, pardon me, with Ms. Roberts --
 9
 10 THE COURT: Yes.
11
 12 MS. JOYCE: -- before I do that.
13
14 THE COURT: Yes. Okay.
15
 16 (JURY ENTERS)
17
 18 THE COURT: All members of the jury are present?
 19
20 MS. HAYES: Yes, they are.
 21
22 MS. JOYCE: Yes, Your Honour -- My Lord.
23
24 THE COURT: Thank you. Please be seated.
25
 26 ANGEL ROBERTS, Previously Sworn, Re-examined by Ms. Joyce
 27
 28 Q MS. HAYES: Ms. Roberts, just before we took a break, I
29 began talking to you about a preliminary inquiry transcript, and I’m going to provide it
30 to Madam Clerk to provide to you. Oh. Thank you. Ms. Hayes actually has another
 31 copy of it, and I’m just going to locate the portion that I wish you to look at.
 32
 33 THE COURT: Thank you.
 34
 35 THE COURT CLERK: Page 71, Sir.
36
37 THE COURT: Thank you.
 38
39 Q MS. JOYCE: Ms. Hayes (sic), if you can start looking just
 40 about halfway down that page and read the questions and answers that are there,
 41 please -- not out loud, but to yourself.
194
 1
 2 Ms. Hayes (sic), did you read those questions and answers? Oh, sorry. Ms. Hayes --
 I
 3 keep saying Ms. Hayes. Ms. Roberts, did you read those questions and answers?
4 A Yes, I did.
 5
 6 Q Okay. So that was on page 71 and the bottom half of that page?
 7 A Correct.
 8
 9 Q Does it refresh your memory as to what you may have talked about at the preliminary
10 inquiry?
 11 A Yeah. Yes, it does.
12
 13 Q Okay. And in the context of the questions you were asked about mentioning a fist to
14 the head and a hand on your neck?
15 A Correct.
 16
 17 Q What can you tell the Court then about whether or not you have said that before,
 18 whether or not you have said that the accused had his hand on your neck and a fist to
19 your head?
 20 A Can you restate your question?
 21
 22 Q Sure. Perhaps if you could put page 71 in front of you and look at the portion that I
 23 asked you to look at.
 24 A What would you like me to tell you?
 25
This is precisely the problem "what would you like me to tell you?" She had been coached all along via police and crown prosecutors and they had gotten away with it and this was entertained by judges and crowns alike and the very reason why I requested a jury trial because those 12 members were witnesses to what had been going on for years and the jury wasn't stupid they heard this statement. I was told "its crazy to go judge and jury Joseph, the jury will error on the side of caution and convict just to be safe so a pervert will be off the streets" When in fact they became witnesses to the farce that had been going on for a long time . I personally believe that should it have been judge alone, I would have been convicted. The jury forced them to be legit.
 26 Q Those are all my questions. Thank you.
 27
 28 THE COURT: Thank you very much. May this witness be
 29 excused?
 30
 31 MS. JOYCE: Yes, she may.
 32
33 THE COURT: All right. Thank you very much, ma’am.
 34 You’re excused.
35
36 (WITNESS STANDS DOWN)
37
They now set about a way to acquit. You can continue to read if you like. For myself I am exhausted emotionally and close. They knew this didn't happen and we didn't even get to call any evidence as they forced an acquittal, closed the case leaving me numb and unable to reconcile so many years of my life wasted and all that you can imagine that goes with it.

 38 MS. JOYCE: And I am going to basically be giving the jury
39 their exercise. I’m going to be asking them if they -- the Court if they could ask -- if you
40 could ask the jury to be absent for a moment, please.
 41
 195
 1 THE COURT: Yes. Thank you very much.
 2
3 (JURY RETIRES)
 4
5 Submissions by Ms. Joyce (Directed Verdict Options)
 6
 7 MS. JOYCE: It’s a situation where unfortunately one can
 8 only take as much -- or can offer as much assistance as I can to a person and only as
 9 much as they will take, but in this instance, My Lord, I am not going to be asking you to
 10 put to the jury that they convict upon the evidence of Angel Roberts. I’m not sure of the
11 exact procedure to go through with that, but I can indicate that the other evidence that
 12 was to be called by the Crown, now that the statements are excluded, I don’t think would
13 rehabilitate what has happened here, and I don’t propose to have the matter of conviction
 14 put to the jury.
15
You see " I don't think would rehabilitate". These are just some of the ways courts deal with these matters. Surely if you're a male and a female says you wronged her and no matter the lack of any evidence, radom versions of their statements and even admitting to perjury while under oath....They will still try to "rehabilitate" and should the jury not have witnessed this and it was judge alone you can bet the trial would have resumed. My proof of this? well you needn't have to look further than the preliminary inquiry that was even worse than this, yet absent of the jury they found that there was sufficient evidence to put the matter over for trial.
 16 Discussion (Directed Verdict Options)
17
 18 THE COURT: I understand. In terms of procedure, I have had
 19 some -- and I don’t know if this is a case for a directed verdict or not. If it were, it
20 would be essentially -- and I -- and I’m not sure if it’s on a consent basis or not. I have
 21 had some occasion to direct a verdict. That’s the only reason I mention it. There may be
 22 another way of dealing with this.
 23
 24 Ms. Hayes, do you have any thoughts about what the next step is if the Crown is
25 essentially closing its case and not seeking a finding of guilt on any of the counts?
 26
27 MS. HAYES: I actually am not familiar with what the
 28 appropriate procedure would be. I am open to the Court’s suggestion. Then perhaps if
 29 the Court has had experience with it and can advise us what has been done in the past, we
 30 can perhaps discuss it and see if there is something we agree on.
 31
You see there is nothing to go on, a first in Canadian history? My lawyer ,the crown and certainly the judge have had little to none experience with this sort of thing. Yet you never hear from myself in any regards other than to ask to step out for a minute. They make decisions amongst themselves to force an acquittal and screw me out of a jury verdict while the judge half heartedly clears me but not before throwing in a few comments.
 32 MS. JOYCE: I think even though there has been evidence on
33 each of the specific counts, I think that by agreement we could say that it is not
34 evidence -- is not reliable evidence that the jury would be able to convict upon, and I
 35 think that it might be, I guess, a close call, but I think that if by consent we could still
 36 agree that it was a directed verdict that that could be the way to do this.
37
 38 THE COURT: Okay. That may well be the way to go. My
 39 memory on the law around directed verdict is that it’s an extraordinary finding and
40 direction to a jury. They are, after all, entitled to make the factual determinations, but
41 there are some cases where the evidence put to a -- the evidence is of such of a nature, if
 196
1 I can euphemise a little bit, that to put it to a jury reasonably instructed one could have no
 2 confidence the jury could properly convict on that evidence. It’s essentially the test -- I’m
 3 sure I’ve used some wrong words there, but I’ll come back to it and clean it up if I need
4 to.
What I would like to do, though, is take a brief adjournment to inform myself that
 5 that is the appropriate procedure or -- and to make sure there isn’t some other procedure
 6 that is more compelling than that.
 7
 Oh we know that you or someone did some "but I'll come back and clean it up if I need to"
 8 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
9
 10 THE COURT: I suppose the only other thing that comes to
11 mind, Ms. Joyce, is -- is the Crown -- have you considered a stay or simply -- it’s not a
12 situation where you’re calling -- I guess you are calling no further evidence and inviting
 13 the Court, but -- it would be an easy thing to do if it was a judge alone trial, but it’s not,
 14 so we still -- it’s either directed verdict or something else. A stay may not be what you
15 think is appropriate in all of the circumstances. I don’t know.
 16
 17 MS. JOYCE: And -- and that is where I’m coming from. I
18 have considered a stay, but I think where the evidence has been heard, I think in this
 19 instance that this accused -- that he has a right to an acquittal rather than a stay of the
 20 proceedings in this instance.
 21
 22 THE COURT: And I was thinking of that, too. I don’t want to
23 put anyone on edge. It wasn’t as though I was inviting you to stay the charges rather
 24 than invite an acquittal because --
25
  Sir it is your courtroom, why be concerned with putting anyone on edge. You certainly weren't concerned about my feelings.
 26 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
27
 28 THE COURT: -- that doesn’t necessarily leave Mr. Harms
29 where he wants to be or, for that matter, where he’s entitled to be. Let’s take a few
 30 minutes. I don’t expect it will be very long. We’ll find a way to deal with this in the
 31 most appropriate fashion.
 32
 33 MS. JOYCE: Yes
. 34
 35 THE COURT: And I don’t think in the end result the jury will
 36 be ultimately inconvenienced by it. I’ll let Madam -- I’ll let Madam Clerk know
 37 somehow when I am ready to come back.
 38
39 MS. JOYCE: Yes, Sir.
40
41 THE COURT: Thank you very much.
197
 1
 2 (ADJOURNMENT)
3
 4 THE COURT: Thank you. Please be seated.
 5
 6 SoIhope you’re not looking at me for an answer. We have to have a further discussion.
7 When I had mentioned I had had some experience directing verdicts, it was in the context
 8 ofacase in which I concluded the Crown had failed to prove an essential element of the
 9 offence. It had nothing to do with weight or credibility. In this case, it’s all about
10 credibility, it seems to me.
11
So just who do we look to? after all you're the judge.
 12 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 13
 14 THE COURT: Not whether or not there is absent evidence on
 15 some essential element of each of the essential elements of the various offences that have
 16 been charged. And so when I look at the law, and there are a number of cases from the
 17 Supreme Court of Canada which have been applied in the trial courts, Court of Appeals,
18 on this point, the law appears to be that it’s inappropriate for a judge sitting with a jury to
 19 direct a verdict when there is some evidence, which a jury properly instructed -- on which
20 a jury properly instructed could in their own good judgment put weight on and therefore
 21
 convict.
22
23 The -- what I couldn’t find in any of the cases in my ten minutes of research was what --
 24 whether it makes any difference that the Crown is essentially consenting to that type of
 25 directed verdict procedure. And the apprehension that we all have is whether if the -- if
 26 this jury is directed by me to -- or if I take the case away on the basis of a directed
 27 verdict and then direct for an acquittal, will that result in further proceedings. I doubt that
 28 very much given the Crown’s position, but that’s only one consideration, what’s also
 29 relevant is whether we’re doing the right thing here in accordance with the law.
 30
 31 Now, there are -- something I considered but haven’t had a chance to get to the bottom of
 32 at all is whether it’s possible to permit a re-election to occur at this time, which would
33 then -- if it’s possible, and I don’t know under the Code, haven’t looked, if it’s possible
 34 once the jury has been sworn to -- the parties agree to re-elect, then the case is before a
 35 judge alone and that straightens things out considerably.
36
 37 The -- another option that I’m informed has been -- has occurred is that where there is
 38 good reason to declare a mistrial, the jury is excused, and the parties agree to carry the
39 trial on before a judge alone, and then the result can unfold. I’m just not sure whether
 40 there is any reason why a mistrial would be granted, even on a consent basis. I’m not
41 sure if I have jurisdiction to grant a mistrial on a consent basis. I haven’t looked at that.
198
 1
 2 Another option exists, and I’ll -- I’ll outline it for you, but it’s not without, in my view, at
 3 least a hypothetical risk, and it’s this. We bring the jury back. We tell the jury -- I --
 4 we --Itell the jury that the Crown intends to call no further evidence, and that it is the
5 Crown’s position that based upon the evidence they have heard a verdict of not guilty
 6 should be entered on account of the Crown’s position that the jury could not find on this
 7 evidence that there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt on each and every one of the
 8 offences on the indictment. I would also have to indicate, however, to the jury that the
9 defence at this stage of the trial intended to call no evidence, but, of course, that the
10 defence joined the Crown’s submission with respect to the outcome. I would also then
11 instruct the jury that while the case remains for the jury to decide on the facts, in my
 12 view once they have taken into account the evidence they have heard, that I would also --
13 I can’t -- I would tell them I can’t tell them what to do, because I can’t, but I can instruct
 14 them in no uncertain terms about the -- the difficulty of proof beyond a reasonable doubt
 15 having been achieved when the evidence -- this evidence is of such a tenuous nature. I
16 haven’t drafted that. The difficulty, the hypothetical difficulty, and perhaps we all think
 17 the jury will then go away and come back with a verdict of acquittal or a finding of not
 18 guilty, but if they do convict on one or more of the offences, the question then is what
 19 does one do. Some think that that would amount to -- in the circumstances would amount
 20 to a perverse verdict, which would then enable me not to enter the verdict and direct an
 21 acquittal. I’m not so sure about that. There is law in the Morgentaler case, for example,
 22 which recognizes that while a jury has to be instructed to follow the law and to accept the
 23 trial judge’s instructions on the law, the jury can ignore the law when they’re back in the
 24 room deliberating, and they can come back with a perverse verdict that is inconsistent
 25 with the law, and their fact findings are also obviously entirely within their domain. So
 26 the notion that after all is said and done and a jury comes back with a verdict that no one
 27 here perhaps thinks is appropriate, if they do that anyway in their own good judgment,
28 I’m not convinced that a -- that a -- that not entering that verdict would be appropriate, at
 29 least Mr. Harms is in some way harm’s way potentially.
 30
31 Those are the options that I have been able to explore in my own mind with the aid of a
32 handful of research assistants in red robes upstairs and a little bit of research on the
33 appropriateness of directing verdicts. So your thoughts?
 34
 35 One thing occurred to me, and I apologize, I should stop talking at some point, my
36 thoughts -- one thought I had is that counsel may wish to inform themselves about the --
 37 in their -- as they see fit to do so about the appropriate way of proceeding, and that would
 38 take us over to the morning, I expect, realistically.
 39
 40 I’m not overly concerned about letting the jury go and bringing them back tomorrow
41 morning. That’s frankly part of what the jury signed on for. But it’s just that this is a --
199
1 I’d say a unique, not inappropriate, but a unique situation, and I think I don’t -- to the
2 extent possible, I would like to handle it in a manner that is in keeping with good law and
 3 procedure. So I am going to stop talking now and would welcome your thoughts.
 4
 5 MS. JOYCE: I don’t mind at all either if things are to be set
6 over. The only thing that comes to my mind, and I think I should say it before I forget it,
 7 as you were speaking and your worry was that if we were to put it to the jury even with
8 an instruction that it’s dangerous to convict and that -- and with the expectation that they
 9 would likely come back with a not guilty verdict, you indicate that the concern there is
10 that the jury would go against your instruction and would -- or might go against your
11 instruction. So but what we’re talking about with a directed verdict is that it is a jury
 12 who’s -- a jury who was acting judiciously, and so I think we can still -- could still come
13 back to the directed verdict because -- and as you have said, for the worry that if we put
 14 it to the jury is that the possibility of conviction would happen if they were acting outside
15 of your instructions. Where we have directed -- or the test for the directed verdict is a
 16 jury could not reasonably convict if they were acting judicially with the proper instruction
17 on -- or judiciously with the proper instructions on the law. So I do think it can still
18 come back that they can do a directed verdict, and it wouldn’t necessarily have to be
19 based on consent of the Crown, but rather that the Crown will close its case, and the
20 argument and the instructions that you would have had to provide to the jury based on the
 21 Crown closing its case on this point would have to essentially lead them to an acquittal.
 22 And if it did not lead them to an acquittal, then they would not be acting judiciously. So
 23 I think --
24
25 THE COURT: Okay.
 26
27 MS. JOYCE: -- I’m just circling around and around and
28 around and. . .
29
 30 THE COURT: No, and I understand -- I understand the thread
31 of your argument. I can tell you that from what I have read, the cases -- and I can
32 provide you with cites presently -- Monteleone is the core case, and there have been a
33 number of cases in the Supreme Court of Canada, at least two since that case was
 34 decided, very clearly state and set aside directed verdicts. Now, there is a dissent in one
 35 of the cases, but it’s a dissent. Whether I prefer that dissent or not is not -- is of no
36 moment. The case law is quite clear as far as I have been able to unearth it on short
 37 notice that if there is any evidence that the jury is entitled to weigh, it’s their job to do so.
38 As I say, none of the cases deal with a consent situation. And -- and, Ms. Joyce, if I’m
39 unable to tell the jury that essentially the Crown is consenting to a directed verdict or the
 40 Crown is consenting to my instruction to them --
41 200 1 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
2
3 THE COURT: -- that they acquit, for all intents and purposes,
 4 I would have even more concern that they may -- they may bring back a verdict which is
 5 inconsistent with the -- what we’re discussing here. Part of the problem with the scenario
6 that I set out where we do actually let the jury go back and deliberate is that they would
 7 be doing so on the basis of a final outcome, so the defence would have no final
 8 opportunity at that point to call a defence.
9
This made me extremely nervous, I was up all night and quite honestly I was preparing myself for an even further fight should I have been convicted and yet in my own trial bring forward so much overwhelming evidence that this didn't occur.It was one of the roughest nights I ever faced since this began.
 10 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 11
 12 THE COURT: I don’t know if at this point you’ve already
13 made your mind up, Ms. Hayes, about whether you intend to call any evidence. That may
14 be an non-issue; I don’t know. But with -- to go back to directed verdict, I’m at this point
15 not persuaded that I -- that it is proper procedure to direct a verdict based on evidence
 16 that has to be weighed. I may be argued out of that position, but right now I’m just
17 telling you what I have read in the case law --
18
19 MS. JOYCE: Yes
. 20
 21 THE COURT: -- on very high -- a very high authority and
22 quite recent, two thousand -- you know, late ’90s, 2000s cases. We’re not talking about
 23 1950s. Nothing wrong with the 1950s.
 24
 25 Ms. Hayes.
 26
 27 MS. HAYES: Sir, I can advise that I would be extremely
 28 uncomfortable with a third of the options that you have given, largely because in this
29 circumstance I think all of the parties here are of the view the -- an inappropriate
 30 conviction, if that did come back, and in light of that I can’t possibly agree to that on --
 31 even if it is only a hypothetical possibility that the jury may come back with that -- with
 32 that verdict, so I can’t advise my client to accept that option. That being said, I don’t -- I
 33 don’t have another solution at present.
34
 35 What I would suggest we do, Sir, it sounds like all of us are trying to come up with a
36 way to get to the same end result, so perhaps what would be most productive, Sir, is to
37 adjourn for the day, allow the jury to leave, and then we can all continue our research this
38 evening and see if we can not come up with something that’s productive -- or another
39 possibility for the morning.
 40
41 THE COURT: Okay. I welcome that suggestion. I think it’s
 201
 1 the right way to go. Have a look, if you will, at the possibility of a re-election under the
 2 Code.
 3
 4 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 5
 6 THE COURT: These election/re-election provisions are highly
7 technical. You’ll know that better than me. There may be a way to deal with this on the
 8 basis of a consent re-election. And consider the other options that I have -- I have 9 mooted with you. I’m going to -- I’ll keep looking at it, too, but I’ll rely on hearing from
10 you in the morning. And perhaps we can come back at 9:30 --
11
 12 MS. JOYCE: Yes
. 13
 14 THE COURT: -- and ask the jury to come back at 10. 9, 9:30,
15 whatever suits you. So that whatever we’re doing -- I take it, Ms. Joyce, it’s fair to say
16 that whatever else happens here, you’re calling no further evidence.
17
 18 MS. JOYCE: Oh, absolutely.
19
 20 THE COURT: Okay. And so then it’s really only a matter of
 21 whether the defendant intends -- defence intends to call any evidence.
 22
 23 If worse comes to worse, we’re addressing the jury in the morning. Your addresses may
24 be very, very short. And then I need to address, again since we’re speaking about
 25 hypotheticals here, then I charge the jury. And depending on what you say, I would
 26 rather not spend a lot of time working on a charge, but I would like you to have some
 27 opportunity to see it before I deliver it. Just by virtue of the number of counts on the
 28 indictment, it’s going to be a little bit complicated, but it doesn’t need to be very long.
 29 So at the end of the day if we need this jury to deliberate in the ordinary fashion, I expect
 30 they could be addressed and charged before noon, and then they go to work. That’s the --
 31 sort of the -- that’s perhaps not what anyone wants to see happen here, but you know, as I
32 say, my intention would be to deal with this in a correct legal fashion.
33
34 I’ll give some further thought with regard to whether I can direct a verdict without -- and
35 here is the last thing I want to say, Ms. Joyce. I had the impression, and I’m not trying
 36 to put you on the spot, but I had the impression this was essentially a consent matter, and
 37 I have some trep -- I have some concern that if I’m unable -- if all I can tell the jury is
38 that the Crown intends to call no further evidence and the Crown would be inviting you
 39 in your opening -- in your closing address to acquit or to make a finding that there is
 40 insufficient proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that’s not quite the same thing as consent,
 41 but at least I would need to have comfort that I could tell the jury on a directed verdict
 202
 1 kind of basis that that is the position of the Crown. Is that -- can I go that far?
 2
 3 MS. JOYCE: When I -- when I said earlier that you wouldn’t
 4 have to rest your decision on whether or not the Crown was consenting, we would
 5 absolutely consent that this should be a directed verdict. I just meant to say that if the
 6 authorities don’t give you specific guidance where the Crown has consented, that doesn’t
 7 necessarily have to be a factor in your consideration of whether or not you can find a
8 directed verdict.
 9
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11
 12 MS. JOYCE: But we are certainly consenting. I -- I do not
 13 think that this matter should -- I think it would be dangerous to convict on the evidence
 14 of Ms. Roberts, and I don’t wish to see this jury, by either mistake or not, or going
 15 around any kind of instructions coming back with a verdict of guilty.
 16
17 THE COURT: Okay. All right. That helps me. That still
18 be -- may be the way to go. I just need to satisfy myself. And you can have a look at
 19 some of the cases, too. They’re easily found.
 20
21 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 22
 23 THE COURT: That with consent, given the Crown’s position,
 24 however it is -- however it’s styled, that perhaps all of the cases that say I can’t do this
 25 are distinguishable.
 26
 27 MS. JOYCE: Yes
. 28
 29 THE COURT: So I -- but I need to look at that a little bit
30 more, and I see no -- there is no good in keeping the jury waiting any -- any longer this
31 afternoon for that to unfold. So my proposal, finally, would be to have them come back
 32 in
. 33
 34 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 35
36 THE COURT: Thank them for their efforts today and ask them
 37 to come back at 10:00 tomorrow morning.
38
39 MS. JOYCE: Yes
. 40
41 THE COURT: Thank you.
 203
1
2 MS. JOYCE: I’m just going to step outside, Sir. The mother
 3 of Angel Roberts indicated she wished to be in here when an acquittal was read, but I just
 4 wish to let her know that that won’t be happening today.
 5
 6 THE COURT: All right. Oh, I’m sorry. Yeah, please bring
 7 them back.
 8
 9 MS. JOYCE: It appears that the elder Ms. Roberts also
 10 changes her mind. She is no longer present, so. . .
 11
 12 (JURY ENTERS)
13
 14 THE COURT: Thank you. I find the jury is present.
 15
 16 MS. JOYCE: Yes, My Lord
. 17
 18 THE COURT: Please be seated.
 19
 20 Ladies and gentlemen, I can inform you of a couple of things. One is that your having
 21 heard the evidence of the complainant, Angel Roberts, the Crown has advised -- and I’ll
22 ask you, Ms. Joyce, to confirm -- that that is case for the Crown.
23
24 MS. JOYCE: Yes. I am calling no further evidence beyond
 25 the evidence of Angel Roberts.
26
27 THE COURT: Thank you very much.
28
29 In the circumstances, and having had a discussion with counsel in terms of moving
 30 forward with this case, there are matters that we need to discuss or to consider between
 31 now and tomorrow morning, which will then lead us, me and/or counsel, in a certain
32 direction or otherwise. We’re unable to come to a conclusion this afternoon. I expect we
 33 will be able to come to a conclusion at some point tomorrow, one way or the other in this
34 case. Just how that unfolds, however, is something that we need to give some further
35 consideration to. And so in those circumstances, I’m going to adjourn the trial over until
 36 tomorrow morning at 10:00, and I thank you for your efforts so far today and look
 37 forward to seeing you tomorrow at 10:00.
38
39 THE JURY OFFICER: Thank you, My Lord
. 40
41 THE COURT: Thank you very much.
 204
 1
2 (JURY RETIRES)
 3
 4 THE COURT: All right. 9:30?
 5
6 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
7
 8 THE COURT: That works? Okay.
 9
 10 THE COURT CLERK: Sir, can I just ask if you wish this Exhibit A to 11 be sealed?
 12
13 THE COURT: That was the. . .
14
 15 THE COURT CLERK: The letter from the juror that was excused.
 16 Usually jurors --
17
18 THE COURT: I would think so.
 19
 20 THE COURT CLERK: Thank you, Sir.
 21
 22 THE COURT: Yes. Anyone have a difficulty with sealing it?
 23
24 MS. JOYCE: No, not at all.
 25
 26 THE COURT: Thank you. Have a nice evening.
27
 28 MS. JOYCE: Thank you, My Lord.
 29
 30
31 PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED UNTIL 9:30 AM, OCTOBER 9, 2013 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 205 1 Certificate of Transcript 2 3 I, Cindy Teruya, certify that the foregoing pages are a complete and accurate transcript of 4 the proceedings, taken down by me in shorthand and recorded by a sound-recording 5 machine and transcribed from my shorthand notes to the best of my skill and ability. 6 7 8 Digitally Certified: 2014-01-10 10:49:22 9 Cindy Teruya, CSR(A) 10 Order No. 43196-13-4 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 Pages: 47 36 Lines: 1961 37 Characters: 59795 38 39 File Locator: d91e78807a1e11e3aafd0017a4770810 40 Digital Fingerprint: 64963becee33ffb482c7558503437f40b3e59ee6726497ca03ca34178272c554 41

206
1 Proceedings taken in the Court of Queen’s Bench of Alberta, Law Courts, Edmonton, Alberta
 2
 3 October 9, 2013 Morning Session
4 5 The Honourable Court of Queen’s Bench
 6 Mr. Justice Michalyshyn of Alberta
 7 8 S.L. Joyce For the Crown 9 T.E. Hayes For the Accused
10 C. Duggan Court Clerk
11 N. Varevac Court Clerk
12 C. Teruya, CSR(A), RPR Official Court Reporter
13 14 15 Discussion (Directed Verdict Options) 16 17 THE COURT: Good morning.
 18
19 MS. JOYCE: Good morning, Sir.
20
 21 THE COURT: Please be seated.
22
23 Let me tell you with what’s on my mind before I hear from you -- although I’m happy to
 24 hear from you, of course. My research overnight and this morning has led me to at least
 25 a tentative conclusion that a re-election is possible on a consent basis and would be the --
 26 from a legal point of view, would be the most appropriate way to deal with this, the issue
27 of resolving this matter. Any thoughts about that?
 28
 29 MS. JOYCE: That’s -- that’s actually the procedure that
30 Ms. Hayes and I were just talking about this morning to -- not that we couldn’t -- or I 31 don’t think that we definitely couldn’t go the other way, but I think the re-election is the
32 appropriate way to go.
33
34 THE COURT: Yeah. Fair enough.
 35
 36 Ms. Hayes.
 37
 38 MS. HAYES: That’s fair. And my friend and I did have
39 some discussion this morning, and while neither of us think this is an actual concern, we
 40 want to make it abundantly clear on the record, and particularly I wanted to make it clear
 41 on the record, that the purpose of the re-election is totally to allow this Court to impose
 207
 1 an acquittal. Certainly neither my friend nor I intend to make argument about it, and
 2 certainly it’s -- was our perception that the Court is prepared to enter acquittal, but we
 3 wanted that on -- on the record so that it was clear that we’re not --
 4
 5 THE COURT: Yes, I -- and I appreciate your apprehension
 6 and, quite rightly, you want to have some certainty that I won’t then entertain a finding of
 7 guilt on any of the counts before the Court. I think that’s -- that is a fair conclusion, that
 8 I will not.
9
 10 Okay. So it seems to me in terms of procedure that I need to inform the jury that there, I
11 think, has been or will be, it’s just a matter of timing, a consent re-election to a Queen’s
12 Bench judge alone, which will then enable me to thank them for their service and
13 discharge them. I think the re-election probably has to take place first. And we are on
14 the record, of course. So are you, Ms. Joyce, in a position now to confirm that you are
 15 consenting to a re-election and that the accused is wishing now to re-elect to judge alone?
16
 17 MS. JOYCE: I’m in a position to confirm that, Sir. Under
18 Section 561 I think normally there would be required written notice as to the application
19 to re-elect by the accused, and I am prepared to waive any requirement of that by the
 20 Crown. And so then we’re now kind of in an informal hearing as to the re-election. I’m
 21 prepared to give my consent on the record, and I have an informal handwritten consent
22 that I can actually file at this point as well just so that there is a document on the record.
 23
24 THE COURT: Okay. Terrific
 25
 26 MS. JOYCE: I think that requires a written -- my written
27 consent, and I do give that.
28
 29 THE COURT: All right. And it is -- you have instructions, of
 30 course, that your client wishes to re-elect to Queen’s Bench judge alone?
 31
 32 MS. HAYES: That’s correct, Sir.
 33
 34 THE COURT: All right. So that’s done.
 35
 36 Re-election
 37
 38 THE COURT: So all we need to do at this stage then, I think I
 39 need to discharge the jury, and then I will -- subject to any further submissions, I will
 40 conclude the case.
41
 208
 1 Discussion
2
 3 MS. JOYCE: Just in my reading on what happens when there
4 isare-election, I think that there will have to be a formal application that the evidence
 5 that was heard before the jury in what will now be a prior proceeding will be put before
 6 this Court. But other than that, I think -- I think that’s the only additional step that’s
 7 required.
 8
 9 THE COURT: Okay. And we can deal -- deal with that
 10 formality once we have discharged the jury.
11
12 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 13
 14 THE COURT: Make sure I do that before I proceed to make
15 any other findings. Okay. So now I don’t -- I don’t know if the jury has yet attended.
16 They’re probably here, but I don’t know for sure.
 17
18 THE COURT CLERK: 9:45, Sir, I’m advised.
 19
 20 THE COURT: 9:45?
 21
 22 THE COURT CLERK: Yeah
. 23
 24 THE COURT: Okay.
 25
26 THE COURT CLERK: They’re meeting on the other side of the
 27 building.
 28
 29 THE COURT: Okay. So let’s take a quick adjournment. And,
30 Madam Clerk, if you can let me know when the jury is ready --
31
32 THE COURT CLERK: Certainly, Sir.
33
 34 THE COURT: -- when we’re ready to bring them back in.
 35 Thank you very much.
36
 37 (ADJOURNMENT)
 38
39 THE COURT: Thank you. Good morning again. Please be
40 seated.
 41
 209
 1 I think we can bring the jury in. Thank you, Madam Clerk.
 2
 3 (JURY ENTERS)
 4
 5 THE COURT: The jury is present and accounted for, Counsel?
 6
 7 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 8
 9 MS. HAYES: Yes.
10
11 THE COURT: Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen,
 12 please be seated.
 13
 14 Ladies and gentlemen, this -- in some ways this has been a brief and somewhat unusual
15 case and so far as your involvement is concerned it’s about to get even briefer. The
16 reason for that is that, as the parties are entitled under the Criminal Code, a decision has
17 been made with the consent of the Crown that the accused wishes to re-elect to have this
 18 case continue in the absence of a jury but in the presence of a Queen’s Bench judge
19 alone. And that is a procedure which is open to the defence upon the consent of the
 20 Crown even at this stage of the trial. It is my duty, therefore, to thank you very much for
21 your attendance starting yesterday. The trial, of course, started Monday, but certain
22 matters had to be dealt with in your absence on Monday. I want to -- I’m grateful, and
 23 the parties are grateful, for your attendance yesterday, and of course as well this morning,
 24 and for your serving this important public function as jurors.
 25
 26 I hope you’re not too disappointed that you won’t have an opportunity to deliberate and
 27 make a final decision on the evidence in this case, but as I say, this is an unusual, but not
 28 unprecedented, development in jury trials. The case will, therefore, continue briefly this
 29 morning before me, and I will make a decision as to the outcome.
30
 31 And my last task, aside from once again thanking you for your attendance, is to formally
32 discharge you as the jury in this case. Thank you very much. You’re free to go.
33
 34 (JURY EXCUSED)
35
 36 THE COURT: All right. So as we discussed, someone needs
 37 to make an application. I presume the Crown.
 38
 39 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
40
 41 THE COURT: All right.
210
1
 2 MS. JOYCE: I make the application that the evidence that
 3 this Court has heard while it was sitting with the jury, and that’s the entirety of the
 4 evidence from the voir dire and then through to the evidence heard yesterday with the jury
 5 present, be applied to this trial. I think there is authority that even where there has been
 6 no transcript that it can be -- the evidence given can be deemed to be read in as you heard
7 it yourself over the past two days, My Lord
. 8
9 THE COURT: Yes. And I’m sure you don’t have any problem
 10 with that application, Ms. Hayes?
 11
 12 MS. HAYES: I -- I don’t have any problem with that
. 13 Though, just for clarity of the record, I don’t think the evidence from the voir dire would
14 form part of the trial proper before you, particularly given your findings in the voir dire.
15 I know you have heard it all, but in terms of what would be considered, and it’s just
16 simply technical, but certainly the evidence from yesterday would be properly before you,
 17 and I certainly consent to that application.
18
 19 THE COURT: I think -- I thought briefly about whether -- you
20 know, what status the voir dire evidence would be, without getting too uptight about that,
 21 of course, the findings are that the statements from the voir dire are inadmissible for the
 22 reasons given.
 23
24 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
25
 26 THE COURT: The other evidence that came out in the voir
 27 dire may or may not be properly before me. I’ll assume it is, but I can tell you that it
 28 makes no difference in terms of the findings that I will make momentarily with regard to
 29 whether the Crown has proved its case against Mr. Harms beyond a reasonable doubt.
 30
 31 MS. JOYCE: Yes.
 32
 33 THE COURT: On that, before going to that final point, are
 34 there any further submissions or issues that need to be dealt with?
 35
36 MS. JOYCE: I think, Sir, where we left off yesterday was I
37 had closed my case, and I’ll -- I think I will re-close now that the evidence has been
38 accepted. And I think that it should be put to the accused whether or not he wishes to
39 call evidence and then to continue from there.
 40
 41 THE COURT: Yes. Thank you.
 211
 1
 2 MS. HAYES: There will be no evidence called on behalf of
 3 Mr. Harms, Sir.
4
5 THE COURT: Thank you very much, Ms. Hayes.
 6
7 Submissions?
 8
9 MS. JOYCE: And I’ll formally indicate I’m not seeking
 10 conviction on any of the counts that are before you on the indictment, Sir.
11
 12 THE COURT: Thank you.
13
 14 I don’t think I need to hear from you, Ms. Hayes.
 15
16 MS. HAYES: I don’t think you do either, Sir. Thank you
. 17
18 Reasons for Judgment
19
20 THE COURT: So my first observation is to express my -- on
 21 my behalf, you can have your own conversation, Counsel, but the conduct of the Crown
22 in this case is admirable. I think it’s the right decision, but I’m not convinced that every
23 Crown would have taken what I think is an admirable approach to the case. There is
 24 another scenario where the case is simply allowed to unfold, either before a jury or before
25 a judge, and a decision -- you know, other evidence is called and the matter is prolonged.
 26 In my view, Ms. Joyce, you made the right decision. And I’m grateful for that, and I
27 admire your principled approach to the case.
28
I would have to agree on one point, this Crown lawyer who was brought in for the trial alone did what appears that the other 2 crown lawyers weren't able to do. She was able to discern bullshit from truth and it only took her a couple hours. While the other 2 weren't able to see this for what it is in nearly 3 years! To my surprise and many others is that the other two crown members were male and the one able to do her job a female. You might think it the other way around. The 2 male crown that brought out the rusty knight armour......well I needn't say more than what obviously I am alluding to.
29 With regard to the case itself, of course I made my findings with respect to certain
 30 statements that were inadmissible for the reasons given. We heard the evidence of
 31 Ms. Angel Roberts, which lacked credibility, certainly as a result of cross-examination.
 32 And while I’m convinced that no jury reasonably instructed could convict on the basis of
 33 that evidence on any of the counts, I’m certainly convinced that sitting on this matter now
34 in a judge alone context, I’m certainly convinced that the case, which hinges entirely on
 35 Ms. Roberts’ testimony, has not been proved against Mr. Harms on any of the counts on
 36 the indictment on a standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That, of course, results
 37 in a finding of not guilty. I am -- and an acquittal, Mr. Harms. That does not lead me to
38 the conclusion, nor should it lead anyone to the conclusion, that something didn’t happen
 39 on May 21st, 2011. It simply leads to the conclusion that from my point of view sitting
 40 on this matter without a jury, I don’t know what happened on May 21st, 2011. All it
 41 means is that on the basis of the evidence that was called and was admitted, the Crown
 212
1 hasn’t proven its case against you, Mr. Harms, and you are, therefore, acquitted. You are
 2 free to go your own way.
3
4 Are there any other orders which are necessary? There is the one exhibit marked A,
5 which is sealed and presumably will stay in the court file.
 6
 7 THE COURT CLERK: Stays with the file. Thank you, Sir.
 8
 9 THE COURT: Any other orders?
10
 11 MS. JOYCE: I don’t think so, Sir. There were -- I don’t
12 believe they were any items seized that could be returned or any kind of forfeiture that
 13 I’m required -- or required to ask for.
14
 15 THE COURT: Okay.
16
 17 MS. JOYCE: Nothing further from the Crown.
 18
19 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Hayes, anything else I need to
20 do here?
 21
22 MS. HAYES: I don’t think so, Sir. I’m just going to double
 23 check with Mr. Harms. No, my understanding is that there was no items seized that need
 24 to be returned to Mr. Harms.
 25
 26 THE COURT: Okay. Very well then. Thank you very much,
 27 Counsel, for your efforts. We are adjourned.
 28
 29 MS. JOYCE: Thank you, Sir.
 30
 31 THE COURT: Thank you Madam Clerk -- Madam Clerks and
 32 Madam Reporter. Thanks, Officer. 33 34 35 PROCEEDINGS CONCLUDED 36 37 38 39 40 41 2
If you think that this is it, the matter was over ,you couldn't be more wrong. I now deal with the charges that get laid in harassment by police while you go through the motions of being presumed innocent until proven guilty. For one small example I will share this. I had to stay at court appointed residence while I wasn't incarcerated and awaiting court. A certain high ranking police commander felt I shouldn't be in his area of town, live across the street from a school. Remember, not my choice but rather where they put me. So in order to get me out of the area he falsely charged me with breaches. At the station in no uncertain terms stated " we don't need your kind living amongst the good people of South Edmonton and across from their kids school"!
The charges were dropped for this instance and yet they charged me so many more times in efforts to cover, discredit and I believe attempt to push me to kill myself. For years they dragged out these charges. Yet I have been found guilty of nothing to date.
On Tuesday May 12, 2015 they will render a final verdict in charges of "assaulting police", a matter definitely connected yet the courts pretend it to be a separate matter and unconnected. They denied me a jury trial and I had the unfortunate "co incidence" of drawing the judge who was the former deputy minister of justice of Alberta Canada." Coincidence"? what do you think?
I can only hope the man is honorable, Sees what they did to me and puts an end to it. Next Tuesday it will be just less than 1 month since it all began with my false accuser 4 years ago and still to this very day Friday, May 8th,2015 I am under some of the same conditions of bail release that was set when I was accused falsely. My hope for actual real justice is bleak at best.
TORTURED.